Long - original
- Thread starter mjbphotos
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I like this song a lot. Good playing and singing. I dig the lead guitar sounds. Your mix sounds close if not claustrophobic. It needs air to breathe. A lot of sounds are competing in the midrange especially. The acoustics could come down. The vocal sounds boxy and in a different space than the band. You might look at whatever ambiance you have on the track, and consider EQ cuts in the midrange. The bass is boomy and could come down a notch.
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andrushkiwt
Well-known member
Mike, there are lots of great things about this song that tells me it has tremendous potential. You have a great hook and good use of background harmonies, for example. I hear a lot more arrangement issues though than mix issues. I'll share some, if you don't mind...
I'm not sure the purpose of section 1:20-1:33. You've ended the great chorus melody and are ready for transition into the next verse, but I think this part of the song makes the monotony of the strumming acoustics overbearing. To replace the "so long ago" vocals, I would come up with a lead instrument melody instead. In other words, it's a sort of "dead air" where not much is happening, and it's too early in the song for it. Using it at 3:10, near the end, fits much better.
Also, ending 1:57 with "long" way before the end of that measure leaves another blank space that loses the listeners attention and got me a little lost in the arrangement. Picking up into the solo, I'd much rather hear the energy of the vocals carry me into the solo rather than fade away into the next section. That seems to be the only line in that song that ends so early in the measure. Your vocal melodies are very good, when you use them, but too often I thought that lines were cut short and momentum was lost. 2:52 is another example... add a couple words after "friends I miss"; the vocals seem to abruptly end otherwise.
Surely, it's all personal preference. But my opinion is that with a few arrangement considerations and changes, the song would command more attention and the flow would be more consistent. Honestly, I thought the mix was very good. I love the delayed guitar a lot. Gives it a whole desperate and "longing" vibe. Very nice man
I'm not sure the purpose of section 1:20-1:33. You've ended the great chorus melody and are ready for transition into the next verse, but I think this part of the song makes the monotony of the strumming acoustics overbearing. To replace the "so long ago" vocals, I would come up with a lead instrument melody instead. In other words, it's a sort of "dead air" where not much is happening, and it's too early in the song for it. Using it at 3:10, near the end, fits much better.
Also, ending 1:57 with "long" way before the end of that measure leaves another blank space that loses the listeners attention and got me a little lost in the arrangement. Picking up into the solo, I'd much rather hear the energy of the vocals carry me into the solo rather than fade away into the next section. That seems to be the only line in that song that ends so early in the measure. Your vocal melodies are very good, when you use them, but too often I thought that lines were cut short and momentum was lost. 2:52 is another example... add a couple words after "friends I miss"; the vocals seem to abruptly end otherwise.
Surely, it's all personal preference. But my opinion is that with a few arrangement considerations and changes, the song would command more attention and the flow would be more consistent. Honestly, I thought the mix was very good. I love the delayed guitar a lot. Gives it a whole desperate and "longing" vibe. Very nice man
mjbphotos
Moderator
Thanks for the listens and comments.
Acoustics - it is doubled, the one on the right was played with fingers, the one on the left with pick. Because the electric guitar is panned slightly right, I kept the right side acoustic lower, guess that didnt' work.
Bass - I almost always throw a compressor on the bass, didn't this time, that should help tame it.
The only thing EQed at this point was the lead vocal - it also has the Abbey Road double delay trick on it. When I took some of the 'boxy' area out with EQ it sounded thin, guess a subtle touch is needed.
Acoustics - it is doubled, the one on the right was played with fingers, the one on the left with pick. Because the electric guitar is panned slightly right, I kept the right side acoustic lower, guess that didnt' work.
Bass - I almost always throw a compressor on the bass, didn't this time, that should help tame it.
The only thing EQed at this point was the lead vocal - it also has the Abbey Road double delay trick on it. When I took some of the 'boxy' area out with EQ it sounded thin, guess a subtle touch is needed.
VomitHatSteve
Hat STYLE. Not contents.
Yeah, the big nit I have with it is that when the chorus kicks in, there is a lot of stuff happening in the mid-range.
Nola
Well-known member
Okay that explains it. I'd just lower the left once since it was too loud anyway, then it should match with the finger-picked one well.
mjbphotos
Moderator
Took the advice:
EQ on both acoustics and bass, reduced left side acoustic a little, bumped right side acoustic up a little (to make up for EQ cut).
Did a fairly narrow-Q EQ on the lead vocal to take a little boxiness out of it (my voice is naturally boxy!)
Andrush - thanks for the arrangement suggestions, but I think your music style/ideas are a little different than mine. What you call 'blank space' (when there is no 'lead' melody from vocal or an instrument) is a chance for the song to breathe, and makes the transition to the next song section more noticeable. Not something that typically happens in songs like you do (not that there is anything wrong with that, just different genre).
andrushkiwt
Well-known member
It's a pretty universal idea, but no worries. Just thought I'd try and help. The mix is great, and there isn't anything I'd change about that part. Nice work dude
VomitHatSteve
Hat STYLE. Not contents.
New mix is definitely an improvement.
How energetic of a vibe are you going for? You could bump that up a bit by raising the drums. (tho I could see if that's not the goal)
How energetic of a vibe are you going for? You could bump that up a bit by raising the drums. (tho I could see if that's not the goal)
mjbphotos
Moderator
Not sure its an 'energetic' song, Steve! My wife keeps saying 'that's depressing'. But then again, a lot of my recent songs are not about 'happy things'. My next album title could be 'Songs to Slit Your Throat By',
DM60
Well-known member
The mix (latest one) I heard nothing. Bass and kick were sounding to my ears in the right places and right levels. Nice width, not too much but stereo field used well for the mix.
It seems like there is something missing in the upper area5-10k range. Maybe the acoustic could be lifted to fill that spot. I think for this the acoustic being more prominent would complement the vocals.
I didn't think it was depressing as much as pondering, I guess that is what us older people do now. We look forward less and behind more. Over all I thought it a good song, mix and production.
It seems like there is something missing in the upper area5-10k range. Maybe the acoustic could be lifted to fill that spot. I think for this the acoustic being more prominent would complement the vocals.
I didn't think it was depressing as much as pondering, I guess that is what us older people do now. We look forward less and behind more. Over all I thought it a good song, mix and production.
I think mix #2 is a definite improvement. The bass problem is taken care of.
I still think, like Robus said, it's kind of crowded. Things are bunched up in the 1K-4K range.
The vocal sounds like it's in a different space from the instruments. I think you have a cool reverb thing going on in general tho. Snare is the one thing that's super-dry.
I think a doubled lead vocal would be a good idea on a song like this.
I still think, like Robus said, it's kind of crowded. Things are bunched up in the 1K-4K range.
The vocal sounds like it's in a different space from the instruments. I think you have a cool reverb thing going on in general tho. Snare is the one thing that's super-dry.
I think a doubled lead vocal would be a good idea on a song like this.
mjbphotos
Moderator
Thanks for the listens and comments. I've used doubled vox a lot recently, so thought this was one to stay away from that. The 'reverb' on the vocal (and why it may sound in a different space) is the "Abbey Road" trick - 1/8 beat delay on one side, 1/4 beat delay on the other, with EQ on both - low and hi pass to narrow the range, and a sharp scoop at one frequency, think its around 2K. Might need to bring its volume down just a little bit.
Will try more reverb on the snare.
There isn't much high end on the right side acoustic because it was finger-played, don't want to imbalance the 2 guitars again. I didn't EQ the electric yet.
Will try more reverb on the snare.
There isn't much high end on the right side acoustic because it was finger-played, don't want to imbalance the 2 guitars again. I didn't EQ the electric yet.
BroKen_H
Re-member
Listening to remix: I love the level and the sound of the drums. If those are samples, can you point me at the kick?
My only nit would be the end noise...but I'm sure (from your previous works) that that'll get cleaned up anyway.
It's not depressing, it's reminiscent. How about "Songs to Cry Over Your Beer By"
My only nit would be the end noise...but I'm sure (from your previous works) that that'll get cleaned up anyway.
It's not depressing, it's reminiscent. How about "Songs to Cry Over Your Beer By"
mjbphotos
Moderator
Drums are EZDrummer 2, Classic Rock EZX, not sure of the actual one picked out, will let you know. "End noise" - do you mean the delay guitar fade? I tried some takes where I kick up the feedback on the delay pedal and it goes crazy, but in the end let it just fade at the settings used throughout the song.
mjbphotos
Moderator
I didn't notice that, can definitely fix that noise.
I was wrong on the EZD2 drum - it's the Pop/Rock set 18"x22" GMS with felt beater sent to the reverb bus @ -18.48, ReaVerb with Scala Milan Opera House (my favorite) IR with 24 ms predelay.
