Any advice appreciated

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PotBellyPig

New member
Hello. If anyone could offer any advice for mixing this track, it would be greatly appreciated. I realise it may not sound great, I don't trust my ears at all, and I probably also don't have the know-how to correct it even if I knew what was wrong with it. It is a self-recorded album (clearly), and it isn't supposed to be the most polished thing ever produced, luckily.
This is one track of an LP which we planned to have mastered soon, but we're not sure at all whether it is ready for that. Cheers!

View attachment Lens That Sold Them mp3.mp3
 
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How can I not check out a song by "Pot belly Pig"???? I would have gone through the rest of my life asking myself "What if?". :D

No, but seriously, your attachment doesn't work. :(
 
Yup, the new link works! Are you guys fans of Jason Molina by any chance - there's quite a strong likeness to Songs:Ohia/Magnolia Electric Co in terms of overall sound, vocals...and song length.

I really liked the song, plenty to hold the attention over the 7+ minutes. Vocals are a bit pitchy in spots, but that never stopped Molina either...and I don't think they're too distracting for it. The lead guitar line gets a little shrill in spots - like around the 1:18-1:22 mark - you could find the problem frequency and notch it out easily enough though.

For me, the thing that's killing the mix is the lack of bass. You've got a strong kick...and then nothing until the guitars and vocals come in, leaving a big hole. It really needs that low end warmth and a line to lock in with the kick, especially if you're going to wander off a little vocally at times. There is a riff in the song already that could serve as the template for a decent bassline I think - it's the one that loops around the A and C notes. I couldn't quite work out if it was played on the low strings of a guitar or actually the high strings of a bass possibly...but either way I think that you need some bass in that 40-100Hz kind of range.

Hope this helps :)
 
What Rob said above is pretty much how I see/hear it.

Didn't like the cymbals at the end. They went on for a bit long and got old very quick. Sounds like it was mixed by the guitarist.

It really needs a bass in there to glue it all together. :thumbs up:
 
Thanks very much for both of your replies.

We've never actually heard of Jason Molina, but i've just had a listen and it sounds good, I can definitely see where you're coming from. Completely with you on the vocals not being spot on haha. With regards to the bass, that's a slight problem, as the album was recorded generally with a live two-piece performance in mind, so only a couple of songs actually have bass on them. We'll probably go back and record bass parts for the other songs too if that's what's lacking most. Do you happen to know how something like The Black Keys' early work gets a good mix often without a bass part?

Mr Clean - when you say it sounds like it was mixed by a guitarist, are you implying the guitar parts are too loud, or just that there's no bass? It was actually mixed by both of us, but we are just amateurs!

Thanks again both of you for your feedback, more than helpful!
 
PotBellyPig said:
Mr Clean - when you say it sounds like it was mixed by a guitarist, are you implying the guitar parts are too loud, or just that there's no bass? It was actually mixed by both of us, but we are just amateurs!
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I just meant that the guitar dominates but that's always going to be like that if there is to be no bass.

For the recordings, I would still put bass on them regardless of what they are intended for live. But that's just my opinion.
 
Okay, great, that clears it up. Yeah, I think we'll definitely be recording some bass now if that's what both of you think weakens the mix. Thank you!
 
PotBellyPig said:
Thanks very much for both of your replies.

We've never actually heard of Jason Molina, but i've just had a listen and it sounds good, I can definitely see where you're coming from. Completely with you on the vocals not being spot on haha. With regards to the bass, that's a slight problem, as the album was recorded generally with a live two-piece performance in mind, so only a couple of songs actually have bass on them. We'll probably go back and record bass parts for the other songs too if that's what's lacking most. Do you happen to know how something like The Black Keys' early work gets a good mix often without a bass part?

Mr Clean - when you say it sounds like it was mixed by a guitarist, are you implying the guitar parts are too loud, or just that there's no bass? It was actually mixed by both of us, but we are just amateurs!

Thanks again both of you for your feedback, more than helpful!
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Yeah, definitely get the bass on the recordings - even if you've no intention of playing live with one. It's too big a loss without it there. As I said above, if you do go back to it, I'd use that lower guitar riff as your template and get it nice and tight with the kick.

I'm not too familiar with the Black Keys, but I was thinking of the White Stripes and Blood Red Shoes as the two bands I could recall who play as just drum and guitar combo's with no bass. In both those instances they're a bit more high tempo, get more low end guts on the guitars and have access to much better equipment than any of us probably do. Not to mention the fact that they're pro's - even so, I'd say it's hard to carry a slower, building song like this with no bass part.
 
robgreen said:
Yeah, definitely get the bass on the recordings - even if you've no intention of playing live with one. It's too big a loss without it there. As I said above, if you do go back to it, I'd use that lower guitar riff as your template and get it nice and tight with the kick.

I'm not too familiar with the Black Keys, but I was thinking of the White Stripes and Blood Red Shoes as the two bands I could recall who play as just drum and guitar combo's with no bass. In both those instances they're a bit more high tempo, get more low end guts on the guitars and have access to much better equipment than any of us probably do. Not to mention the fact that they're pro's - even so, I'd say it's hard to carry a slower, building song like this with no bass part.
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Okay, will definitely look into that. Yes I thought of the White Stripes too, I guess that makes sense if it's a faster song. Would it be reasonable to perhaps post another of the LP's songs in this thread, see if that mix also suffers from a lack of bass? They're not all this slow and long!
 
PotBellyPig said:
It appears to have deleted my uploaded attachment from before.
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Yeah, it wasn't working last night. Funny thing is, I got negative rep from some bozo who had posted this in another thread a few months ago:
jesseleiker said:
If you aren't using Studio One from Presonus: You haven't done your homework and I'd suggest re-evaluating your situation.
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I guess he/she/it was waiting all this time to get back at me and say the exact same thing to me that I said to him/her/it, which was "Stupid thing to say....and wrong". Problem is, I'm not wrong, your attachment wasn't working. Some people just love to make idiots of themselves. (Nice try Jesse) :laughings:

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OK, about your song. I love the feel. It sounds Native American to me, like you're summoning the gods. The vocals are a little pitchy, that's really the only negative aspect for me. But I hear what you're going for and, if a little more care is taken while tracking vocals, it would be great. I can hear how it needs a bass, but I also hear this as an out-door, sing around the fire tune, which wouldn't have a bass. Nice vibe either way.
 
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Haha, yes, it was definitely broken. Thanks a lot for the comments, we thought it had a sort of Western feel. Which is either very close to Native American, or very far away, i'm not sure. We'll try and address these problems and hopefully improve it!
 
PotBellyPig said:
we thought it had a sort of Western feel. Which is either very close to Native American, or very far away
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Yeah, I think it's both, in the same way that if you go really far east, you end up in the close west. :)
 
To me the pitchiness in the vocal was prevalent enough to be distracting. Might just be me, but there were a lot of missed notes.

During the first 3 minutes the guitars and vocals are right in the same range, and the guitars are sometimes covering the vocal. At about the 3:30 mark or so, the cymbals become a bit loud and cover the vocal too.

Agree that it needs a bass.

To me, the song was too long. It was a simple melody line and guitar riff repeated. For me there wasn't enough variation.

There was quite a bit of reverb on the guitars, and it made the mix a bit cluttered and soupy.
 
Sounds a little CSNY ish to me. If you're heading toward a two man live feel, you've already got three obvious in the mix; just add the fourth and run with it...not going to rehash the vocal or the harsh lead (also very Neil Young ish).
Agree with trip on the ride cymbal and the monotony. A breaking area with different chord structure might help, but this is mixing not songwriting clinic, so I'll shut up. Otherwise, pretty good sounding song.
 
Thanks a lot for the feedback Triple and Broken, unfortunately all the reverb on the guitar was done when the album was recorded. We didn't want it to sound dead and add effects after, so we used the natural reverb of where we were as best we could. I'm a big fan of Neil Young so i'm happy with any comparison to him! Bass has already been added and it seems to have improved it a lot. Now we have to go back and improve the majority of the other songs by adding bass though! Seems a stupid thing to have decided to omit now.
 
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PotBellyPig said:
Bass has already been added and it seems to have approved it a lot. Now we have to go back and improve the majority of the other songs by adding bass though! Seems a stupid thing to have decided to omit now.
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Excellent. Post up the updated version when you chance :thumbs up:
 
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