high priced cables

Bobbsy said:
You remind of back in the day ordering "music circuits" from British Telecom for broadcast use--this was their designation for audio lines that would be used to carry programme material, either for radio or to accompany video for TV.

BT used simple 2 wire twisted pairs--not balanced, not screened. What they DID do was use line driving amplifiers and insist that the interconnect was carefully impedance matched (600 ohms by memory). Working this way they fed audio for hundreds...and even thousands--of kilometers.

Ah, the old days before fibre. Nowadays broadcasters can feed super high quality anywhere--but use Skype instead.
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Ah yes! PO lines. Angus McKenzie, the FM guru of HFNews would often comment that the line from the Liverpool Phil to Bush House had a crackle on it a week last Sunday night!

I think the death knell sounded for copper links when stereo came in. It was tricky enough to EQ a line for a flat response, to get low phase shift meant matched pairs and that came expensive.

Interestingly the digital MW links that replaced them were about 12,1/2 bits iirc but absolutely NOBODY noticed or complained about "clinical" digital sound!

Just thought! Yes, stereo could be sent as a sum and difference signal which eased things a bit but I don't think the lines could be TOO different even then? Remember, there were no 16bit, 9volt delays you could pull out of a pocket!

Dave.
 
A bit of clarification since I was the original post. I am speaking of $30,000 for cables, not the difference between Radio Shack (RIP) cables and name brand cables. I was wandering around a bookstore while the wife was shopping and came across a mag called something like "high end audio" and giving into temptation I bought it. I think the highest priced speaker was $500,000. There must be a market for this stuff and I suppose a case could be made that someone rich enough to be able to afford it should get taken. Jeff B
 
Once you get into decent quality cables, they don't sound different. Speakers and such are like any other electronics: once you get into top quality level, 1% better requires 100% jump in price. Even when the differences are measurable, it's still subjective if there is an audible difference between 0.0001 THD and 0.0002 THD, or if accurate reproduction up to 65kHz actually helps humans hear anything better...
 
audiooops said:
There are companies selling connect cables for DAWs/audio setups for $20,000 and up claiming that the copper is 02 free and all kinds of crazy claims. I remember reading years ago an opinion that you could use a coathanger to connect speakers for all it matters...no difference...so are these people trying to rip us off??? thx
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Aren't silver and gold better conductors than copper, and price is the limiting factor? So for 20k why not make them out of silver, at least?
 
4tracker said:
Aren't silver and gold better conductors than copper, and price is the limiting factor? So for 20k why not make them out of silver, at least?
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No, Gold is in fact a slightly worse conductor than Copper which itself is only slightly worse than Silver, the best conductor of all being about 1.5 times the conductivity of copper.

But the resistance of an audio cable has no bearing on sound quality except if it was so high that it caused an HF loss but you would need KILOMETRES of cable to get that (and other effects would start to show up) .

Naturally you want speaker cables to have low losses and not to impact on damping factor but then again you need a H of a lot of wire to get even ONE Ohm and the voice coil resistance iis the limiting factor for damping.

And in any case! I do not want these fools using up rare, very useful metals to no good purpose! I don't like the use of Platinum (and its mates) for "cosmetics" Stainless steel is quite good enough!

Dave.
 
In my day of hifi, Audiophiles used "cooker cable" (the sort of mains cable used to wire in electric stoves/ovens) to connect speakers.
 
The reason for gold connectors is because gold doesn't tarnish, not because it conducts better.
 
Bobbsy said:
Mogami make "good" cables. They'll work properly and last well. There are other manufacturers who also make decent cables...but these aren't what we're talking about here. There's a whole range of audiophile rubbish where extreme (and subjective) claims are made for very ordinary cables...which are on sale for vastly more than they're worth. As per the original post, some places are trying to charge $20,000 for a pair of short speaker cables. This isn't quality...this is fraud.
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^^^^^ this ^^^^^

There is a difference between cables but we're talking between crap and decent stuff.
There's no justification for the super high priced stuff.

Now ..... I absolutely hear a difference between some guitar cables but even then I just tweak the highs since that's where the difference usually is ... I generally buy inexpensive cables ..... they work just fine.
 
I couple of years ago I was buying some Kirlin cables (a fairly new cable company to be seen here in the US), through a US distributor. The cables looked to be top quality, but very inexpensive...like $15 for 20' guitar cables. They had some nice woven ones, cool colors, and good connectors...so I grabbed a few, and I am very pleased with them.

At the time, as I was looking at the distributor's online stock of Kirlin cables, I noticed that one (only one) that was listed as a studio-grade guitar cable, with silver-plated copper core...and they only wanted like $25 for it, plus it had an unusual outer jacked, thicker than most and clear/transparent on the outside, but white on the inside....very unusual. I checked the Kirlin website for specs...and I figured, what the heck, a silver conductor cable with very high specs for only $25, so I got it.

Do I hear a difference?
Mmmm...to tell the truth, I've not done a side-by-side comparison with my other guitar cables, and I didn't notice any improvement that jumped out at me...but, it is now my main recording cable for guitars. I mean, why not since I had it, and it certainly is a better overall quality, and the thick jacket can be stepped on without any issue..so regardless of the silver-plated copper core, it's a great cable for studio use.

I only got it because the price was right... :)

This is the cable in case anyone is interested...though I've never seen these for sale again here in the US, and I've checked a few retailers.

IS-201PFG /WHF-Kirlin
 
Farview said:
The reason for gold connectors is because gold doesn't tarnish, not because it conducts better.
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True, true.

Silver coins look cool when they tarnish. I'd like a cable that looks like that, tbh.
 
Not promoting expensive silver conductor cables or anything like that...bu I don't think anyone that uses silver in their cables, does so on the external connectors. The silver is in the wire conductor, which is soldered at both ends....not to mention the silver wire is encased by the outside sleeve material.
Point is...it makes no difference if the silver was even able to tarnish on its outside skin... it will have no effect on its internal conductance. Same goes for copper wires, which also tarnish and oxidize easily on the outside.

As an aside...that's why I've always had issues with George-L cables. I know lot of people praise them, but the way the connectors make contact with the cable conductor is by way of the screw that touches the conductor wire externally.
Much easier for them to tarnish, oxidize and lose the connection.
When you solder the wires to connectors...that doesn't come into play...the connection is always 100% even if the outside shows some tarnish.
YMMV....
 
I too prefer soldered cables to the screw on types. Seems like a no-brainer that you'd have a better longer lasting connection.

I have seen cables oxidize inside the insulation so it's possible for that to happen.
 
Farview said:
The reason for gold connectors is because gold doesn't tarnish, not because it conducts better.
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...which is why I laughed in the face of the salesman who tried to sell me a TOSLINK cable with gold plated ends. Since they're fibre optic, I'm not sure tarnish on the physical ends (which are usually plastic anyway) would make much difference!
 
C'on chaps! Let's keep it scientific about terminations? A great deal of old outboard gear (especially American) used screw terminal block I/O conns. Then, inside almost any pre amp, mixer , FX unit, AI and ESPECIALLY tape machines, you will find scores of connections made buy plug and socket albeit tiny ones. Then there are ribbon cables.

What is so wonderful about a soldered joint anyway? You have copper,tin, lead/tin, tin, copper. For modern PBfree leave out the lead and replace with copper and a bit of silver, maybe gold if you are lucky.

There is only a very thin coat of gold on most connectors and as has been said, at least it is a bit more than cosmetic, soon wears out at contact points tho! One great thing about G plate? Dream to solder!

Silver plating complete cables is pointless to me (maybe ok at RF?) I seen claims to reduce "skin effect" but this is barely happening at 20kHz never mind at stuff we can hear!

Dave.
 
Walk into most professional studios, be they TV, Radio or Music Recording and you'll find hundreds or thousands of audio connections going through cable-wrap Krone blocks. These replaced soldered tag blocks in the early/mid-1980s and corrosion has never been a problem even after several decades.

(Hmmm...best say that's UK/European studios. I've lost touch with what's standard in the USA.)
 
sure but that's a far cry from the solderless kits for making pedal board guitar cables which is what Miro was talking about.
You have a tiny screw with a tiny point making minimal contact even when you've just screwed it in.

Here in Florida those things last 6 months and then you find yourself jiggling cables on your pedalboard trying to figure out which one isn't working.
After having to redo everything on my board once or twice a year I finally soldered up all my own connectors and have had zero problems for around 6 years now.
 
I thought we were talking about basic, individual cable interconnects, and not how a pro studio is wired up? :)

Yes, there are punch-block patch bays, and a variety of non-soldered connectors in pro studios...but in most cases they are screwed on/bolted on in a robust way, and they have high quality connectors...and, they don't get moved around.

With a basic connecting cable that you may move or disconnect...and especially with a guitar/instrument cable, like the George-L cables (which is what was talking about)...that's not the case. They get moved, they get abused.
I've used the Geroge-L cables...they suck. I've had to cut and reconnect the ends too many times because it's a lousy style of connection, partly due to oxidation that gets in there and partly do to eventual looseness in the connection from movement.

Soldering is always going to be a 100% connection, forever (unless you actually break the solder joint) where as everything that is surface contact, has the *potential* to lose connection due to oxidation or physical movement from expansion/contraction etc...and AFA the pro studios, I'm sure someone is assigned the task of maintenance. ;)

When I wired up my half-dozen TT/Bantam patch bays, I went with the solder type. I actually have a couple that could go a different way, but you needed a special tool, but soldering was also an option...I chose to solder.
Yeah...a lot more work (the main reason they got away from it in pro studios - the speed of doing it or changing it)...but I've had my patch bays wired up for 15 years now...never had a single connection go on me yet.

Also...there's a reason you have to occasionally disconnect the plug-in connectors and clean them...they don't maintain a solid connection over time, but it's not convenient soldering everything, everywhere.
 
Shit, Miro. You're getting all fancy. I just twist the wires all together and get out electrical tape. :D
 
That will hold you....for awhile. ;)

I've done more soldering than care to remember.
I think I have at least 6 irons of various styles/strengths, and enough solder to help you get rid of all that electrical tape and redo your entire studio...but you'll have to do the work. :D
 
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