Do you really buy that expensive recording software?

Do you buy that expensive recording software, or just download it?(Read authors post)

  • I buy it. I like to support the creator.

    Votes: 564 41.2%
  • I download it. To hell with the creator.

    Votes: 305 22.3%
  • I do both. I have mixed feelings on the subject.

    Votes: 501 36.6%

  • Total voters
    1,370
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How about this.... I got a free copy of Cakewalk when i bought my soundcard, BUT IT DOESN"T WORK WITH WIN2000!!! So I downloaded the version of cakewalk that does work with it! Is that stealing? Probably huh?
-DAN
 
yeah the multitrack software that came with my recording card was made so it would only run on win95/98/ME... I ran win2000 and now run winXP (be damned if I'll install any win9x)... I called the company and they really didn't give a fuck that I couldn't run that software on my machine, so why should I give a fuck about them?
 
jdechant said:
yeah the multitrack software that came with my recording card was made so it would only run on win95/98/ME... I ran win2000 and now run winXP (be damned if I'll install any win9x)... I called the company and they really didn't give a fuck that I couldn't run that software on my machine, so why should I give a fuck about them?

Was it the company that didn't GAF or just the minimium wage earning teleflunky tech support moron?

You must have a Digi or MOTU card.
 
You must have a Digi or MOTU card.
Digi now has support for XP. MOTU never had support for ANY windows platform with Digital Performer, and they never will, but I think they have another program (AudioDesk?) for Windows.
 
As much as I'd like to take the high road and say I've never done it, it's more truthful to say it depends. I have never pirated recording software. When I was too poor for the good stuff, I used Power Tracks which cost me $50. I figure that this is still a niche market, and that even the biggest of software companies making recording software is still pretty small. For whatever reason, that makes a difference to me.

Now, when it comes to other software, such as a very popular operating system that I'll just call "Bill" to protect the innocent, I have not been so morally clean.

I also have more than my fair share of audio CDs burnt from friends. This is really the exact same issue, and I wonder how many of those us who have never pirated software have a few burnt CDs in their collection. Again, size matters to me. I have no problem burning a Chilli Peppers or Rolling Stones CD, but insist on paying for smaller names.
 
Pro Tools Rules! (Hey that rhymes)

Piracy Sucks... (That doesn't really rhyme)


What do these statements have in common?... Well they are both very truthful.
 
Obviously a huge issue. One of morality and drawing lines for ones reputation. So step aside for a moment from the moral issues, after all everyone who opts to steal, hack, crack, pirate or duplicate any copywritten product...... well they will be able to justify it no matter how far the validation must go. And hey, thats between them and whatever gods they chose. At the same time it is mildly ironic that a person will use a copywritten violated product to creat a song that by god they WILL copywrite and protect to the death. But again...... forget the moral issue.

The extremely clever folks who hack and crack products are driven to gain something for nothing, fact. They know stuff about computers and codes and all that shit that I can only imagine. Rumor has it that a good number of these clever hacker/cracker dudes even know how to incorporate a little command in the very program they crack (knowing some poor sot will download it) that will offer to them access to the fools files, passwords and other accounts. So if thats true, then when you download a "free" program, you may be downloading the means for someone to pillage your efforts.

worth the risk?
 
I ran into an interesting problem. About a year ago I inherited a disk of audio programs from a "guy" who owns a fairly large facility. This is a pro-studio mind you, so when I got this disk and stuff I was told that he no longer needed it and was giving it all away. I loaded some of it, but some of it wouldn't load, it would crash and wierd inconsistant things would really mess up things. Well since Im really not into computer stuff I just figured it was operator error. I bought a new soundcard and it came with some demo's and I started playing around and everything was fine. Why would the demos be more reliable than the full up versions of older variations I asked. Well, I tried registering some of this inherited software.... I discovered what cracked was. This pro studio had been downloading gobs of cracked software and using it until it proved itself worthy to be purchased. So now Ive got this daunting task of uninstalling all this garbage. Im sticking with the real deal.


SoMm
 
I bought my samplitude pro. Tried what seems like all other demos and this one worked the best.

Also they have 90 day fully functional demo. No 1min limit no not saving stuff.
 
Software piracy is VERY damaging! My word, these audio companies aren't like Micro$oft selling bazillions of copies of their software. Their prices are high because that's the price it needs to be for the company to exist from release to release.

The only excuse I have for my cracked copy of Cubase is that I BOUGHT the program and I'm terrified of loosing the dongle since I travel with my laptop quite a bit. (shrug) So I downloaded the dongle crack.

Wave editing in the cracked version, though, is very, very buggy so I have 2 copies installed- the regular dongled one and the cracked one. (shrug) You get what you pay for. Now the dongle stays at home and I used the cracked version when I am on the road.

Software piracy is EVIL. The fact that you CAN get damn near anything you want for free is going to be the end of decent software and will likely herald the onset of extrememly inconvenient protection measures. Oh, well. Who is going to make updates and program drivers for the fancy new hardware when all the programmers have been laid off and working at fast food jobs?

Take care,
Chris
 
I bought legit copies of Sound Forge 5.0 and Cakewalk 9. Evenetually I'll upgrade to Sonar.

I've posted tons of stuff about piracy in the past - about how I've been in the computer business for years, about how I saw piracy help to kill off the Commodore Amiga computer - so I'll just add one more thing here. Charger is right about companies providing better demos these days. Pro Tools LE is basicly a demo even though it is functional. While I have played with "warez" in the past to see how a programn looks, a demo is almost always preferable.

Also, I don't see a huge problem in downloading a "crack" if you have already bought a legitimate copy. I've bought a few copy-protected games which I have later downloaded "cracks" for so I can play them on my LAN or play without having to keep the CD in the drive. It is very true that such cracks can be a security problem, and they are used at your own risk. But anything I like, I buy a copy. Enough said....
 
Pro Tools LE is definitely not a demo. I think you're thinking of Pro Tools Free, it's basically a marketing toy to get people using Pro Tools, but it's also a fully functional and free eight-track DAW.
 
The best weapon against pirating is to charge a price that most people will consider to be reasonable and within what they are willing to pay. How often do you hear about people using cracked copies of n-track? Or Fruity Loops? I'm sure there are some, but the prices of these programs is so reasonable that most people would sooner purchase it than take the time to find a cracked copy and deal with the hassles and moral problems that entails. But when you get to $500 or $600 for Logic, Cubase, or Samplitude, people start questioning the price of their morals. The same is true for CDs. The music industry's decision to set an $18 retail price for a popular CD is going to tempt a lot more people to make copies than if that CD were $6-7.

This is not an apology for pirates. I don't use cracked software or copy CDs. I either buy it or do without. I believe that a company that makes a program or CD should be (and is) legally entitled to charge whatever outrageous price it wishes. But if that same company reduces the price significantly, it will sell a lot more copies with little additional production costs and dramatically reduce the incentive to pirate. Take Samplitude, for example. A great program. I have been using a free version of 5-point-something that came with my sound card and I love it. I am planning to purchase the 6.5 version when released (assuming this Apple merger doesn't screw the whole thing up) and pay the full freaking upgrade price. So they'll get my $400 or whatever it is. But how many of you who do not use Samplitude would buy it if they cut the price to $100? Not all of you, maybe not even most of you, but there would definitely be a bunch. The cost to burn a few more copies of the program, copy a few more manuals, and stick 'em in a few more boxes would not cost more than $10 per unit. They would lose $300 on the copy I'm going to buy, but for every one of me that was going to buy it anyway at the higher price, they would gain gaggles of customers who would not otherwise have purchased.

Again, I'm not apologizing for pirating, which I believe is wrong. But I think the industry could solve much of the problem if it really wanted to.
 
This fuckin' issue has been beaten to death.

I know guys who never buy software & never will, even though they can afford it.

I know guys who can't afford 1k for a proggie, but if they could, they'd buy it. They feel that they have to steal.

Who are the really bad guys? (besides the prick who turns a dollar by selling copies of cracked and copied software) The issue IMO, isn't black & white.

IMO, the mergers & foldings happening in audio software are not due to piracy alone. They are due to market saturation of a very small niche. There are not enough pro studios out there to support the pro audio segment of this market. The units that would have to be sold to support the R&D and marketing by each company simply aren't there. That's the way it is.

Regardless:

IMVHO,

If a pro studio that turns a profit is using cracked warez without having bought a legit copy, they're dickheads.

Anyone who uses the Cakewalk/12 Tone/Sonar stuff & doesn't pay, is a dickhead. It's reasonably priced, even for those with a challenged budget.

Ditto for Sonic Foundry.

Anyone who steals N-Track or the like should be tortured, shot & then hanged. Those aren't big corps - They're usually a guy who's banging away code because he likes it, and tries to provide a good product for cheap $. The guy has to eat, you know.

Steinberg makes some great stuff (once the bugs are ironed out) but needs to re-evaluate pricing structure if they want to stay in the game for the long-term. (I was reading awhile back that they were in fiscal trouble.)

Ditto for several of the other higher priced wares.

It's kind of telling that Sonic Foundry and Cakewalk have been around forever, and never seem to be on the edge of going bust.
Maybe they have the pricing formula right.

What about the hardware/DAW/Stand alone work stations that are teetering on the edge or have gone belly up? Due to piracy? I think not.

I think that those boasting about using cracked warez need to shut up about it, and buy it if & when they are able; and those who buy the shit need to stop pointing fingers & feel satisfied that they've done their part to support the software industry.

Oh, a quick PS: The thing about piracy keeping prices up... bullshit. Profit is the name of the game. I very seriously doubt that if everyone payed up, that prices would drop. If you believe that you're living in fairy-tale land.

YMMV
 
Well said Jim!

I would like to personally thank everyone who shelled out the "big bucks" for a TDM system. If it wasn't for you guys, Digi wouldn't have the nuts to release a free 8 track version of their software.
:cool:

And I'd still be recording on my TASCAM 414.:eek:
 
jitteringjim said:
Who are the really bad guys?...The issue IMO, isn't black & white.

Bullshit. It couldn't be more black & white.

How simple is it? Heck, just pull out that dusty old card in the box called "license agreement". It says exactly what you can and can not do, period.

And remember that dialogue box you clicked in a hurry while installing, the one that says "I understand and agree to..." (etc.)??? That was a legally binding contract that said you agree to the terms of the license agreement.

See? Simple eh? Now nobody has to struggle with rendering their own judgements or interpretations of the law, because teams of highly-paid legal experts have figured it out for you, and wrote it down! Pretty cool huh?

jitteringjim this was not specifically directed at you, but just a response to the hilarious cowboy-justice being spouted in this thread.

-heinz
software developer
 
It really is stealing. That's about all there is to it. Its breaking the law.

Going 66mph is a 65 zone is breaking the law, too. Most cops don't mind. Heck, they'll even let you slide by at 70... If those who enforce the law don't care, no one cares.

I wonder how long it will be until some really effective means of nailing pirated software users will be developed?

Take care,
Chris
 
Heinz wrote:

"Heck, just pull out that dusty old card in the box called "license agreement". It says exactly what you can and can not do, period.

And remember that dialogue box you clicked in a hurry while installing, the one that says "I understand and agree to..." (etc.)??? That was a legally binding contract that said you agree to the terms of the license agreement. "

______________________________

That is not quite accurate. (While I may not be a good enough recording engineer to offer much useful advice in that regard, I do fancy myself a pretty decent intellectual property lawyer. :D )

Although someone who purchases software is generally prohibited from copying it for commercial purposes, that prohibition does not come from the license agreement you refer to.

In most states, courts have held that a license agreement that is not provided to the customer until after the customer has already purchased the software and either opens the box (such as the "dusty old card" you mention) or installs the software (such as the dialogue box) is not a legally enforceable contract. The courts' logic is that the contract to purchase the software is created at the time the customer purchases the software (i.e., when the purchaser pays his money for an unopened box at the cash register). As soon as the customer enters into that contract at the cash register, the customer has a license to use the software subject only to the conditions that the customer can be said to have bargained for at the cash register (which is probably nothing unless the outside of the box discusses the scope of the software license). Any new terms and conditions that the customer did not know about at the time that contract was formed (such as a license agreement that the purchaser does not see until after opening the box or a dialogue box purporting to impose a condition the use of the software that the customer does not see until installation) are not part of that contract. As a result, contract law does not generally provide a remedy unless the manufacturer can establish that the license restrictions were provided to the customer before purchase, as may be the case if the license agreement appears on the outside of the box.

That's not to say it is OK to pirate software if there's no license restriction on the outside of the box. There are plenty of legal remedies against copyright violations that flow from law other than contract law. In addition to the federal copyright laws, many states have unfair competition laws that may prohibit pirating software. But while there are an abundance of legal remedies against pirating software, software manuacturers have generally failed in their efforts to enforce the "dusty card in the box" as a binding contract.

So why do they put it in there? Three reasons. First, many software developers have never had their intellectual property lawyer research the issue, and the developer may think its enforceable. Second, even if the developer knows it is not enforceable, a lot of customers will believe it is enforceable. And that may provide a deterrent. Third, even if the license agreement and dialogue box are not themselves a binding contract, they are pretty good evidence in a copyright infringement case that the pirate knew he was not supposed to be pirating the software.

Cheers.
 
Kelby, thanks for the feedback. How "enforceable" a contract is will always be open to debate, heck that's the entire basis of your profession. :)

Most modern software companies seal the cd within the box, and provide a written version of the agreement on paper. Then, again during installation the user is usually presented with the terms again in a dialogue, from which they must scroll to the bottom of the agreement, then click Accept or Decline, again giving them an opportunity to review the terms. From a "spirit of the law" basis, this is enough warning to the user that they understand the agreement they are entering into.

I certainly do not wish to debate the enforceability, nor the terms of the agreements. Although very sarcastic, my point was that these terms are not open to individual interpretation or re-drafting of the terms to satisfy some warped version of reality.
 
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