Turntables, Not Scratchin'

apl

apl

Stand Up Comity
I'm setting up a second stereo system in the den. I've got a Yamaha CR-620 receiver on the way (I had a 420 in college, lost it when my apt was burgled in Memphis. Hey, that adds more to my blues credentials! And there was that guy who indirectly threatened me with a gun, but I digress.) The receiver has two tape loops; I'll use one to a cassette deck and another to the US122. So I'm shopping for a turntable for xfering LPs to CD or tape. I've got a JVC QL-A2 in the living room, direct drive semi-auto with the Grado Black cartridge and that sounds fine. So, I've got a couple of thoughts.

1. Do I need pitch control on the turntable I record with? It seems that some LPs were recorded a bit out of tune.

2. I really like S shaped tonearms, maybe for their nostalgia. There are a lot of turntables on ebay with straight tonearms, and I know they're lighter and stiffer, but they don't look as cool. Am I silly?
 
Unless a record was mastered with a specific pitch error or the turntable in question has some serious drift issues in the motor/belt, I don't see an immediate need for a pitch control on the record player to fix those issues.

If you do get a turntable with pitch control, ensure that it has a working strobe light and platter markings to ensure correct adjustment.

As for S shaped tone arms versus straight arms, it actually doesn't matter so long as the length of the arm is standard or longer and the angle the body of the cartridge is 90 degrees to the centered axis of the record, the shape of the arm is inconsequential.

Only linear tracking arms offer any real degree of tracking accuracy as they alone maintain a constant correct angle of tracking from start to finish on each record. Conventional rear pivoting tone arms are only accurate at a singular point on the record because of the tract of the arc they travel in.

Cheers! :)
 
The Ghost of FM said:
Unless a record was mastered with a specific pitch error...
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It seems like I had a Led Zeppelin album back in the day that was out of tune.

The Ghost of FM said:
If you do get a turntable with pitch control, ensure that it has a working strobe light and platter markings to ensure correct adjustment.
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I just wanna make love to you
underneath the strobe light

Yeah, and the pitch ought to have a zero detent.

The Ghost of FM said:
As for S shaped tone arms versus straight arms, it actually doesn't matter so long as the length of the arm is standard or longer and the angle the body of the cartridge is 90 degrees to the centered axis of the record, the shape of the arm is inconsequential.
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OK. The S looks cool. And I can't believe I'm such a sucker for cosmetics.

The Ghost of FM said:
Only linear tracking arms offer any real degree of tracking accuracy as they alone maintain a constant correct angle of tracking from start to finish on each record. Conventional rear pivoting tone arms are only accurate at a singular point on the record because of the tract of the arc they travel in.

Cheers! :)
Click to expand...

I had a linear tracking Technics for quite a while. It was intolerant of warped records. I'd consider another if I thought that wouldn't be a problem.

I worked for a couple of months in the local audiophile stereo store the summer out of high school. It was way cool.
 
Warped records;

Look for tone arms that keep a constant downward tracking force like those found on many Dual turntables which used a spring pressure mechanism to set the tracking force as apposed to conventional arms that rely strictly on weight and are prone to being thrown out of the groove by the jump ramp effect of the record's warp.

The Dual model CS505 II offers this type of tone arm design and also sports a pitch control with strobe and platter markings.

Some people have also reported success in repairing warped records by placing them in between stacks of heavy books over the course of a few days to flatten back the record.

Storing your records vertically and away from direct sources of heat and sunlight also can stop the problem from occurring in the first place.

Cheers! :)
 
boingoman said:
Ghost-

Any thoughts on the industry-standard DJ table, the Technics 1200?
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I wonder how they managed to get that role? Back in the day, Technics were probably the most popular turntables in the decent-but-not-quite-audiophile market.
 
apl said:
Hey, Ghost, why don't you buy these and sell me one! :D
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Why?

Because I already own a Thorens TD-126 Mk III turntable which has all the features of the Dual except it's made to much higher audiophile standards and weighs in around 40 pounds which translates into a machine that will not feed back even at very high output levels. It's what one might expect when you're spending 1200 bones on a record player. :cool:

The CS505-2 from Dual has all the features but not the same build quality or resistance to rumble feedback.

Cheers! :)
 
boingoman said:
Ghost-

Any thoughts on the industry-standard DJ table, the Technics 1200?
Click to expand...
The 1200 is a solid performer for DJ's because of its heavy construction that resists rumble feedback and its quick start up time, (1/4 turn up to speed) for DJ usage. The full manual operation is also key for those that need to scratch mix and quickly cue up tracks.

It was originally designed to be a medium to higher end use table for home users but it was built so solidly that it was quickly adopted by the club DJ market.

The tone arm is about the only thing that doesn't make it an audiophile piece because of it's poorer compliance with lighter weight cartridges. But, for DJ's who use the heavier Stanton 680 series of magnetic cartridges, it's a perfect match.

Cheers! :)
 
The Ghost of FM said:
I already own a Thorens TD-126 Mk III turntable which has all the features of the Dual except it's made to much higher audiophile standards
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Jeff, I noticed that Thorens still makes turntables: http://www.needledoctor.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.355/.f and some are real beauties but real expensive but then again some not so bad ($399 - $3299) ... What do you think of the current line and would you even look at something like the introductory $400 units from this company ? I'm just lookin' for a basic, manual, good sounding, AND NEW, turntable from a good company and heard Thorens is as good as it gets .... I know I could get one on the used market but nuthin' beats a brand spankin' new one.... and thus me wanting to get one ... Hell, if I can't get a brand new open reel recorder then at least I can buy a factory fresh TT. ;) Any thoughts would be appreciated. :)
 
Stereophile has reviews of budget equipment, and one guy made this recommendation:

In other words, were I to recommend a turntable to a vinyl enthusiast who's new to perfectionist audio, it would be the Rega P3, hands down—virtually regardless of that person's budget. And to the more seasoned audio enthusiast, who already has some familiarity with good analog gear but simply wants an easy way off the merry-go-round, the P9 is my equally easy choice.
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cjacek said:
Jeff, I noticed that Thorens still makes turntables: http://www.needledoctor.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.355/.f and some are real beauties but real expensive but then again some not so bad ($399 - $3299) ... What do you think of the current line and would you even look at something like the introductory $400 units from this company ? I'm just lookin' for a basic, manual, good sounding, AND NEW, turntable from a good company and heard Thorens is as good as it gets .... I know I could get one on the used market but nuthin' beats a brand spankin' new one.... and thus me wanting to get one ... Hell, if I can't get a brand new open reel recorder then at least I can buy a factory fresh TT. ;) Any thoughts would be appreciated. :)
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Daniel,

The current line up is pretty different then the ones that came from the era of when I got mine, some 15+ years ago!

I'd have to study that for a while to see which one would be the best balance of performance versus price. From a quick glance, the one that catches my eye as a promising model seems to the TD 240 which seems to be built to heavier standards then the base models so the rumble specs should be a bit more respectable although it still looks like a bit of a light-weight compared to my older beast. ;)

Cheers! :)
 
apl said:
Stereophile has reviews of budget equipment, and one guy made this recommendation:
Click to expand...
Rega has always put out a respectable product but you may find it lacking most of the features you asked about to address records that are warped or manufactured with speed and pitch anomalies.

Cheers! :)
 
I got pretty into this stuff a couple three years ago, but on a budget. The Project 1.2 was my choice because they were well made, sound good, are were very affordable... I chose to save a few hundred $$$ on my turntable and use that money to start a vinyl collection.

Granted I'm not what anyone would probably consider an audiophile, but my Project turntable lays complete sonic waste to my Denon CD player that cost twice as much as the turntable.

After about a year with the Project, I accidentally bounced the stylus of the Sumiko Oyster cartidge off the platter and broke the tip , so I had to buy a new cartridge... I opted to move up to the Sumiko Black Pearl, and for an extra $20, I was amazed at the improvements just from the new cartridge.

Is it even close to the best model out there? No way, but neither is the rest of my playback gear. But I totally dig slapping some vinyl on the platter and just wearin' the grooves out. Very engaging, and if I go through the 'trouble' to put an album on, I actually just sit and listen to the music... I don't think about anything else, I don't answer the phone if it rings, I just stay engaged in the musical experience. I can't say the experience is anywhere near the same when I listen to a CD, and it has very little to do with the pshycological aspect of listening to an LP... it's just that much more sonically engaging.

Oh, and I also find a lot of value in having the right cleaning products... I'm not suggesting a $500 record cleaning machine when they cost more than the turntable itself, but I find the Audioquest anti-static record brush to be indispensable, and all of the LAST products are phenomenal... particularly the record preservative and the Stylast product. Oh, and a stylus brush is also a good thing to have as well. Spend a few dollars on those cleaning products and it makes for a listening experience with a lot fewer vinyl undesireables (clicks, pops, hiss, white noise)... That record preservative is AMAZING.
 
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