TASCAM M3500....just picked one up!

I've never removed ALL the guts from my 3500...but I've had some of the 4-channel modules out...and all the faders...and even the master section.

Yeah...all those small connectors are a PITA...but I've yet to experience any signal drop/loss at the actual connections.
I think I had a loose connection at the headphone jack card once, and I just bent the pins a bit to snug up the connector.
I have also at one time disconnected ALL of them, applied some cleaner/conditioner, and then put them back, and it's all working fine all this time.

That's why I'm puzzled when I see guys like you who have just a whole slew of simultaneous issues.
I can only conclude that the previous owners of those very troubled 3500/3700 boards went out of their way to abuse and not ever maintain their boards.

I bought some spare modules/parts once from an guy who decided to part his out...and man, the surfaces alone had this grimy/sooty crud on them, and all the knobs were nasty dirty...etc....so I think I'm right...some people just don't appreciate an audio piece of gear like the rest of us do, and they beat the piss out of it until it develops problems, and then they get rid of it. :(
 
Hey Miro,

You're right about the way some people treat their gear. The first thing I usually do with a secondhand piece of gear is clean it. I'm no stickler for cleanliness, but I swear you could catch something nasty from some of the gear I've bought.

I did spray the tray with De-oxit about the third of fourth time I disconnected it but forgot to do it the last time I put it back.....The trouble is I should have checked it before putting it back in the mixer to make sure every circuit was made and guess what? That's where it's impossible to do as you can't get probes in-between the boards. That's what got me thinking whether the Master Panel boards could be 'customised' to fit in a couple of vertical channel strips?

I wasn't planning to track through the board at the moment. I picked up two TLA 5001 pre-amps (four channel each) that I'm going to try coming straight out of into the Fostex G24S. The outputs of the G24 will be normalised through to the inputs of the Fostex D2424LV. The mix will be automated and perfected using using the Mackie Ultramix and the D2424LV, with the final pass being the G24 plugged into the inputs replacing the D2424LV. Initial tests using the Ghost as the board established that the idea worked in principle.

I think now I've got the board up and running and not coughing, spluttering and wheezing (unlike myself:D) I'm going to plug things in and see what gives for a bit.

Al
 
It was the way it was back then. If it was professional gear it was generally in a professional environment. Back then the filthy habit of smoking cigarettes (in the presence of non-smokers) was acceptable. That equipment in that environment equals serious gunk over the years.
 
So I started wiring the studio back up yesterday and had a problem with one of the patchbays that came with the desk.

It's a Neutrik NYS-SPP-L (Made in China). After dismantling it, it turns out a link wire was connected from one of the tips to a return, with also a track been cut. I'm not sure why the previous user had done this. Possibly to take the signal elsewhere? Anyway, I re-instated the patchbay via link wires to how it was originally then went to bed.....however and it must have got me thinking in my sleep, because I woke up with the desire to sort out the last bits of the mixer, namely GROUP 2 & 7 not working.

I think I could sort out what I seen as short-comings with the MASTER SECTION and wanted to run the idea with you guys.

I'm thinking of using a 40pin IDE cable (or other computer type ribbon cable.....I have lots of them in the cupboard) and wiring this to the bottom of the MASTER BUSS PCB ASSY. I'll then take the existing ribbons from the MAIN BUSS PCB (page 42) and fit an IDE Connecting plate. This then would allow the unplugging of the MASTER SECTION for servicing.

I've hot-wired the GROUP faders in place, but I'm going to snip the cables in half and fit some type of screw- connector terminals, again allowing removal.

For the final part, the multicore of cables that lead to the back of the desk, I'm thinking of removing the MOLEX type connectors (GROUP/ MASTER / AUX /EXT / CONTROL ROOM outs) and soldering new sections of wire straight to the MOLEX pins. I'll leave the MOLEX housings in place on the PCBs, as removing them risks damage to the tracks and will be a more robust solution. Then I'll remove the MOLEX connectors from the loom, tin the wires and use screw-connectors to join the wires from the MASTER SECTION to the Loom. I know this might sound a bit like overkill, but I think that should eliminate any wiring problems from the equation. If I still had problems, then they would be coming from the connectors that house the vertical PCBs to the BUSS TRAY (that is if all tracks are good and present) and should be able to be fixed by manipulation of the pins of the BUSS TRAY.

Am I compromising anything by using IDE ribbon cable (I'm assuming this is possible)?

Any other comments?

Cheers,
Al
 
I used a Tascam M3500 for years on quite a few productions. I really liked it. Bargains!
The only thing was the earthing was a bit iffy..hum etc, but the balancing kit should help that and/or a better ground system internally. Never bothered me for electronic stuff.
 
altruistica said:
WOW!

For anyone doing any restoration work in the UK, I've just come across this site for connectors, crimps etc........It's probably going to take me all morning just to work out what the possible solutions to my wiring problems could be.

Toby Electronics: 2.54mm Top Shrouded Cable Header

Al
Click to expand...

Not saying don't do it...but I would approach your restoration as getting the console back to spec, and if you feel the need to mod some things for better signal...but do you really want to redesign the way the whole thing is interconnected...?
 
Hey Guys....been busy!

I did check back to see what you thought of my idea of replacing some of the inter-connects, but by that time I'd figured out that really that's a job for another day.

What prompted this idea though, still remains. It seems every time I disconnect the Master Panel to investigate a problem, I end up fixing the problem but when I re-assemble it another problem has been created. I'm happy to say after two days now fixing broken traces, dry-joints, non-contacting crimps in molex connectors, dodgy insert points, I now have the mixer at a point where I can re-install the studio wiring and run it for the time being. Looking into the future, I will re-cap input CH25-32 and fix the pre-amps and possibly look at installing new molex connectors to the MASTER PANEL Buss Tray. I'll also be on the lookout for parts (especially the buss trays and the ribbon connectors). What I don't want to do is buy some secondhand parts that are in a similar condition as these were.

The only thing that doesn't work after the last re-assemble is that the 'SOLO' function on the four 'EFFECT RETURN' channels have gone AWOL. The main channels work as they should, but the main solo light in the MASTER PANEL doesn't illuminate (or switch to solo mode) when any of the EFFX RTNS are selected. It's not something I'm too bothered about as I wasn't going to use the EFX RTNS anyway. I have 32 spare input channels for returning EFX with all the AUX , EQ and bussing facilities, so the EFX RTNS would probably be used for a 2-TRK return facility, if at all. The main thing I wanted to sort out were the GROUPS as I will use these in mixing and also in tracking if I use the M3500 pre-amps.

Well, it's been a journey.

I feel a lot more confident at reading a schematic now, although my brain only really works in 'serial' mode when assessing a circuit. I haven't the experience or the knowledge to understand the parallel implications of circuit design, but I can tell if a cap is knackered or in the wrong way, I've got better at the removal of resistors and caps, re-soldering etc. I also have had to re-crimp some Molex connectors, although I completely ditched my new wires for the MASTER PANEL (after a day's work) as at the time I thought it wasn't any better a solution. The console is no longer hissing, popping or behaving erratically and it is going to look terrific in the studio.

First opening of MASTER PANEL:

P1010030.JPG

CLEANING OF CONSOLE, MODULES AND POTS:

P1010041.JPG

INSTALL NEW WIRING:

P1010070.JPG

CONSOLE NOW:

P1010046.JPG
 
Looking at some of the metal corrosion in the chassis...I can see why the rest of the board is showing issues with the connections, etc.
My tried and true solution to all metal-to-metal connectors....first I clean with Caig DeoxIT D100 (the pure stuff, no solvent)...wipe relatively dry...

DeoxIT®, #D100L-2

...and I wipe with some Caig DeoxIT ProGold to maintain the clean connectivity (now it's called just DeoxIT Gold)

DeoxIT® Gold G-Series


Did you paint the metal black...or did you get it like that?
I guess it was done to match the new/black armrest.

Looks very nice-n-clean all put back together again. :)
 
Hi Miro,

Thanks for the links....I've been using some Deoxit D5 that I had to buy from the States as the UK doesn't (or didn't at the time) stock it. I'll look into the links you gave.

I haven't done any cosmetics to the console. The owner previous to the owner I bought off, had restored the desk. The owner I bought from was in a band and the place I picked the mixer up from.....well let's just say I've seen cleaner properties that were about to be demolished.......it did have a cover over the desk. I knew there was no point in trying the desk as the owner said it had been a working desk up to about a year ago ('working' probably meaning, the power switch turned on). I knew there would be more problems than the 'pre-amp on 27 deosn't work and the meter stays lit. The thing is I paid £450 for it and it came with 2 looms worth £50, three patchbays worth £30 each and most importantly the full manual with original schematics etc. The mixer now has found a nice home. Heated and free of damp, I'll keep an eye on the rust and when I get around to re-capping the input channels, I'll paint the inside with Hammerite. I don't want to speak too soon, but I think I'm turning the corner with the desk. The Master Panel is probably the worst section electronically, as it has had people looking at it that just tried to 'make do' judging by some of the broken connectors and spliced wires I've removed from there.

As it is now, the tone generator works, all the talkback works, the monitor section is all ok and since sorting out the last few broken traces (which had busses 5,6 and 7 all coming on in different amounts when GROUP 5/6 were selected) the AUXES seem much quieter. If I need to open the MASTER PANEL again, I would be looking into making a better link between the MAIN BUSS PCB and MASTER PANEL PCB possibly by fitting new crimp housings and connectors.
I read the manual about setting the meters on the Group Outputs to a certain setting, but I've set them to be 0VU when they're outputting 0.316V. This should match OVU on the Tascam MSR24, the Fostex G24S and also the Fostex D2424LV (when set to unbalanced operation in the SETUP menu).

Thanks for all your help guys.

Now back to the wiring......then the music.

Al
 
Just noticed that last pic was from before. The console now looks like this:

P1010079.JPG

Guess what,,,,,turned the mixer on for this pic and GROUP 8 has gone AWOL :laughings:

I'm pretty sure it's because of the contact between the BUSS TRAY and the card itself. I'll get some of the stuff Miro suggested and the next time I dismantle the MASTER PANEL I'll thoroughly clean then ube it with the Gold stuff.

Al
 
So I cleaned the MASTER PANEL with the stuff Miro suggested and then applied the Gold stuff. It's sorted out everything except the 'SENSE' signal on the four EFX return solo settings....I can live with that.

So I plugged everything in and eventually I had a ground loop from somewhere. It wasn't horrendous but was obtrusive enough to want me to sort it out. Is this why desks such as the Mackie 8 buss and the Soundcraft Ghost, both of which I've used had 'compensated ground' connections? The wiring hasn't changed since using those desks, but both were quieter than the M3500.

No matter, I disconnected everything and now have the following:

M3500

LINE IN 1-24 - MSR24 outs
TAPE IN 1-24 - FOSTEX D2424 outs
GROUP OUTS 1-8 - PATCHBAY
AUX 1-6 - PATCHBAY

The MSR24 ins are all on the patchbay as are the D2424LV ins.

Everything so far is quiet enough to work with as can be heard here:

https://youtu.be/4lNMj_ebYT8


Now my dilemma is connecting the Mackie Ultramix system to the inserts of the M3500. I could hear a significant rise in the 'ground loop' problem previously and wondered what kind of setting I should be aiming for, as the MACKIE is meant to run with the console's faders at unity. Has anyone ever run an Ultramix system before? If so, how did you set your input stage gain, your channel faders and your master fader?

Al
 
If the ground problems are anything like my M3700 there are2 things that improved it, I ran a large ground wire between the Chassis of the M3700 and the Chassis on the MSR16 (when I used that) and also the chassis ground of the power amps running the monitors. Reduced the hum by about 75%, strange thing the ground hum never went to tape it was always one the monitor side, which was a good thing.

If you mute all the aux sends and monitor faders when not it use the ground noise reduces, this is even it the pots / faders are off.

Don't forget also that the M3500 was made with pin 3 hot on the XLR's, this is not a problem as all the XLR's are still in phase, but can lead to issues if you have XLR's converted to unbalanced around the studio and some gear converts with pin 2 hot and pins 1 & 3 bridged, and the M3500 has Pin 3 hot and pins 1 & 2 bridged.

Another thing is that you can try lifting the shield (pin1 if XLR) on the cables between the M3500 and the power amps, at the amp end.

Alan.
 
Thanks for that Alan, I'll add those to the list of things to do.

Do you run your CHANNEL faders and MASTER fader as normal?

My definition of 'normal' would be MASTER at '0', input gain of each CHANNEL referenced to MSR24 (or finally it will be FOSTEX G24S), so that '0' on tape channel gives '0' on LINE INPUT when soloed.

Then, the mix is comprised of lowering the CHANNEL faders to give mix wanted whilst observing a healthy level on the MAIN stereo output.

That's how I've always set up a mixer.

Cheers
Al
 
witzendoz said:
Don't forget also that the M3500 was made with pin 3 hot on the XLR's, this is not a problem as all the XLR's are still in phase, but can lead to issues if you have XLR's converted to unbalanced around the studio and some gear converts with pin 2 hot and pins 1 & 3 bridged, and the M3500 has Pin 3 hot and pins 1 & 2 bridged.
Click to expand...

I spent one afternoon many years back converting all the Pin 3 Hot to Pin 2 Hot on my TASCAM.
For awhile I was using some cables to "flip" that...but then I just decided I might as well modify it, and then I can forget about it.
I've done the same with some of my other Pin 3 Hot gear...like my Otari decks. I reversed them on my 2-track, bit on my MX-80, I just did it at the patch bay, rather than at the deck.
 
altruistica said:
Thanks for that Alan, I'll add those to the list of things to do.

Do you run your CHANNEL faders and MASTER fader as normal?

My definition of 'normal' would be MASTER at '0', input gain of each CHANNEL referenced to MSR24 (or finally it will be FOSTEX G24S), so that '0' on tape channel gives '0' on LINE INPUT when soloed.

Then, the mix is comprised of lowering the CHANNEL faders to give mix wanted whilst observing a healthy level on the MAIN stereo output.

That's how I've always set up a mixer.

Cheers
Al
Click to expand...

If you are talking about mixing, I usually start with the master fader at 0, this can change during the mix if the level creeps up a little on the mix, usually the master fader is down a little, 5 or 10 dB by the end. The channels are coming in at around 0 as I have the recorder plugged into the tape returns as they are fixed input. Incoming signals I usually set the channel level so that the fader is around 0 with a good healthy level. So I think we are on the same page.

I actually like running the M3700 hot, this seems to reduce the noise floor and I also think it sounds better getting a bit of a hammering. I think this also comes from my years of analog where a good level to tape was wanted.

Alan.
 
Hey Alan,

Thanks for that info.

I was talking about final mix.

Sounds like we're doing a similar thing. I got chance to record some vocals to a stereo backing track on the MSR24 last night, simulating a session to check out routing, foldback to artist etc. The mixer is running quieter now but I haven't yet added in the MACKIE ULTRAMIX or any efx units. It's good to know that the staple diet of recording equipment (mic pres, recorder, console & monitors) are quiet though.

I'll get chance to complete it in the next couple of days and report back.

Al
 
There was a problem with ground loops on some of the earlier 3500s.Remove the panel over the input jacks .There should be cuts and jumpers on the jack input cards with a buss,(tascam used braided copper), tying all the grounds of the jack PCBs together and tied to the power supply connector ground.
 
I also have a 3500, and was wondering, does upgrading the power supply help at all? I don't mean to jack this thread. I didn't want to start a new thread, and I'm still learning how to navigate. I noticed that the 3500 in the pic is black. Mine is gray. I don't know that it makes a difference. I have hiss that gets louder on its own sometimes. I will run through my setup, and maybe you guys can just point me in the right direction. Oh, and there's no balancing kit on mine. I'm running 16 channels direct out, and 46 channels into console. I'm running all that through two motu 24i/o's with pic express card. I'm using Cubase 6.5 on a PC. The fact that my power supply only has chassis ground is scary to me. I constantly feel like I'm going to touch the wrong thing, and end up like Marty Mcfly across the room. I was thinking maybe the shitty outboard gear is not helping. I'm using all the auxes to run through various guitar pedals, and one highly cheap pioneer spring reverb. I'm planning on unplugging all of that anyway, because I don't really use them. I was going to use them for tracking, but I just use plugins for that. Anyway, thanks for the help, and let me know if I missed anything, or if anymore info is needed.
 
Thanks for that info wrkbee, I'll take a look.

YettiPoop......no need for an apology for chiming in....I always think the more input (like a mixing console:D) the better.

The console used to be grey I suspect. The owner before the one I bought from did all the cosmetics to the desk. New side cheeks, new armrest, new meterbridge sides. He also sprayed the blanking panels a very nice charcoal grey colour. There's no balancing kit on mine, but it does have jacks as opposed to RCA for the tape inputs (I think a European thing)

I think the hiss that gets louder on your desk is probably from the power supply. I re-capped the PS as the first thing to do from advice gained here. It has totally stopped phantom noises and hisses that would appear at random. Since I've re-plugged the equipment the ground loop situation is much better now, although I am replacing the Fostex D2424LV MKII in my setup with an RME UFX which should arrive tomorrow. I was thinking of going the MOTU 24I/O as I've owned one before, but all my computers now are all-in-ones or laptops with no PCI arrangement. I did look at the MOTU 24Ao but the clincher on the RME was that it is RME! 5-year guarantee and also a neat USB DURec facility, whereby all inputs and outputs can be recorded to a USB drive without a computer.......really neat. I already have two Behringer ADA8200 interfaces which will effectively give me 24 ins and outs to computer, thereby I can track on tape, dump to computer and automate the mix, then final pass from tape. That's the idea anyhow.

I'll report back once i get everything wired back up. I possibly have to contend on how I'm going to run the balanced outs from the ADA2000 and the UFX into the M3500. I have some XLR to stereo jack looms, but fear I might have to disable the cold (-) pin.

Al
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top