Patch bays

S

stevem5000

New member
I need to get a patch bay and don;t know what to get...
I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction...

Here is what i have...
Several analog devices...
Turntable...
CD player...
Cassette deck...
R2R tape deck...
DAT deck...
Onkyo reciever...
Computer audio inputs...
3 separate speaker systems

All my devices have RCA outputs...
My PC audio card runs RCA and mini stereo inputs...

What I want to be able to do is plug my various devices into various devices...
Example...
Turntable to receiver...or turntable to PC audio input to digitize an LP...for example...
R2R to receiver or PC audio in...
DAT to R2R or cassette to R2R...
Receiver to one of several speaker systems...3 different speakers in my workroom plus 2 other speaker systems
in other parts of the house...

What I am doing...
I digitize old analog sources, and DAT and make CD's for some bands in the area...
They may give me old LP's, DAT, cassette or R2R and I digitize them and produce quality audio CD's...with artwork...

So...I'm finding that I'm switching stuff around all the time...crawling in the back of the PC or the receiver etc etc...

So I thought a patch bay would help...
I would like RCA on the back and 1/4 on the front...

Now...do I need balanced, or unbalanced...
Do I need normal, half normal or thru....(I suspect thru but I don;t know)...

My longest cable run...of any kind...is maybe 8 feet...

I want to use 1/4 patch cords as I suspect they are the strongest...short lengths...maybe 2 ft or so...

So...appreciate any suggestions...
Brands, models etc...

Many thank...
Steve
 
If all of your connections are RCA, everything is unbalanced.

AFAIK, there are no RCA on the back, 1/4 on the front patch bays. But you can get RCA to 1/4 cables to hook your equipment to the 1/4 inputs of the patchbay.

You probably don't need any normalling. The only time you need that is if you want something to be hooked up to something else without any patch cables being used. In other words, those things are normally hooked together, unless you start patching something else.

With a turntable, you need a phono preamp to apply the RIAA curve on the audio, otherwise it will sound really strange. Of course, any stereo with a phono input can be used between the turntable and the computer.

Re'an makes some decent patchbays. There is no need to go all out with the patch cables, so just about anything that doesn't look like it will disintegrate will be fine.
 
I rather like the Behringer patch bays because you can change the normalling link so easily. They've been reliable and sturdy. The rean ones I have are good too.

I'd suggest that normalling is pretty handy. I always plan on paper for the most common connections and then arrange things so that this takes no patch cables at all, leaving the over patching for the less common paths.
 
If you do a search of ebay and such sites, Tascam made patch Bays with RCA's front and back, Jacks Front RCAs on back (I have one of these) and a version with Jacks front and back. They are 16 channel patch bays with unbalanced connectors.

Link to manual



Cheers
Alan
 
Whatever you do Steve I think you should resign yourself to quite a bit of soldering!

Point: If you go for a balanced patch bay you can wire each input jack as left and right (convention is tip L ring R) so you will need (a lot of!) RCA to TRS plug leads. You can buy these of course but it will be much cheaper to either buy RCA-RCA leads and chop to length and fit a plug or buy a drum of 3mm mic cable and roll you own, lot more work but at least you can customize the individual cable lengths.

Since the "gear to bay" cables will hardly ever move once fitted they can be some really cheap ass'ed ***t.

But DO draw up diagrams and work out just how many jacks etc you need, you will be surprised!

You mention speaker selection? Do not mix this with the line level patchbay signals, not even the commons/earths. That is a recipe for twittering crosstalk or outright screaming instability!....Work out speaker routing with Speakons in a tin.

Dave.
 
Wow...good info..Thanks guys...
Couple follow up questions...

Dave...I'm understanding to NOT have any speaker connections on the same patch bay as my in's and out's to the equipment...
And you say "Work out speaker routing with Speakons in a tin."....not sure what you mean here...
I have soldered up 1/4 plugs...but for this do I need mic cable...???

Alan...These Tascam patch bays...I think I saw one on eBay...RCA to 1/4...prolly grab it...and I downloaded the manual...thanks...

Jay...I have been using a phono preamp...works nice...and I never thought of using my receiver as the preamp then into my PC...
I guess I could use tape out on the receiver to the audio card...???

Question...normalling...as I understand this...On the patch bay...I have say my R2R plugged in the RCA's on the back...left and right...
With NO 1/4 plugs plugged into the corresponding 1/4 jacks on the front won't this be a "closed circuit"...so if I turn my R2R on, and play a tape without realizing that I do NOT have it patched to some output device...is that not a direct short across the out's
of the R2R...???....what effect would this have on my R2R...???...or any of the output devices...???

Thanks again guys...
Appreciate your time...
 
Personally, I think a patchbay is the wrong approach here. A simple input switch box like the ones Radio Shack sells for 20 bucks would do the trick. Just plug all your playback devices into the switcher and split the output of the switcher's out jacks to the stereo and the PC. Problem solved.

Same deal for the speakers. Buy a simple speaker switch-box to turn on or off the speaker pair you want to monitor. Only thing to watch out for is impedance issues if you turn on multiple pairs which might present a lower impedance load then the amp in question can deal with.

Cheers! :)
 
Ghost has the right idea. You are trying to get a bunch of things connected to one set of inputs, so a switchbox would be the best solution. Same for the speaker selector.

Thr patchbay question about normalling... If something is normalled, that means that, with no patch cable, your r2r would be connected to the computer inputs all the time, unless you use a patch cable to connect something else to the computer inputs.

A normalled connection means that something is normally connected to something else, unless you interupt the connection with a patch cable connected to something else.
 
"Dave...I'm understanding to NOT have any speaker connections on the same patch bay as my in's and out's to the equipment...
And you say "Work out speaker routing with Speakons in a tin."....not sure what you mean here...
I have soldered up 1/4 plugs...but for this do I need mic cable...???"

Sorry if I was unclear.

Yes, DO NOT mix speaker level signals with any others.

"Speakons" are special connector designed specifically for, er, speakers! They have a very high current rating and cannot be confused/misplugged with anything else. You don't HAVE to use them. You could use 1/4" jacks but there would then be a possible error and they are hardly "hi-fi" for quality speaker signals?

A very acceptable speaker conn' is the XLR4 or 5.

"In a tin" is just my feeble limey humour for in a case or box (could be ABS?) .

Mention has been made of a selector switch instead of a patch bay. Fine if the "off" sources are always dead but otherwise even the best switching systems can crosstalk. Ok perhaps for just listening but not for recording. Crosstalk is hard enough to control in "pro" systems with very low, <50Ohms, output impedances. The kit involved here will not be nearly as good.

Dave.
 
I looked at an input switch...but I think that limits me...
As far as I can tell, I can have all my devices going into the input switch...but the switch goes out to only one device...my PC for example...so in this example, how would I do it if I wanted to go from the input switch out to my receiver rather than the PC...
Pull the cords to the audio card on the pc and plug them into the receiver...???
Kinda defeats the purpose in my mind...

I have done a job of duping cassettes to R2R....so it would seem to me that a patch bay gives me the maximum flexibility...
Which I think is more important than something simpler like a switch...

ALL....great input...
thanks again...
Steve
 
You could use a balanced patch bay in stereo using dual RCA to single 1/4" TRS cables from the gear to the back of the panel. Then you could patch each unbalanced stereo pair with a single TRS-TRS cable.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
You could use a balanced patch bay in stereo using dual RCA to single 1/4" TRS cables from the gear to the back of the panel. Then you could patch each unbalanced stereo pair with a single TRS-TRS cable.
Click to expand...

Great minds BSG!
Yes, because most of the sources are stereo this PB really needs to be stereo as well. Keeping track of lefts and rights would be a PITA and a recipe for cockups.

Dave.
 
Sounds reasonable...
So...what do I look for a patch board with stereo RCA to stereo 1/4 out...
Make, model...etc...???
 
stevem5000 said:
Sounds reasonable...
So...what do I look for a patch board with stereo RCA to stereo 1/4 out...
Make, model...etc...???
Click to expand...

Any patchbay with "balanced", i.e. 2 circuit, TRS jacks will do you. I understand the Behringer models are surprisingly good?

I doubt if there is such a thing as a PB with two RCAs per stereo jack?


Dave.
 
Yep...I've been "googling" my butt off today trying to find 2 RCA's and Stereo 1/4....but that animal does not exist...

So...I think I will get 1/4 in and out and buy a lot of adapter cables...:>)
 
stevem5000 said:
Yep...I've been "googling" my butt off today trying to find 2 RCA's and Stereo 1/4....but that animal does not exist...

So...I think I will get 1/4 in and out and buy a lot of adapter cables...:>)
Click to expand...

To be clear, that's what I was suggesting: using a bunch of dual RCA to single TRS cables with a standard TRS patchbay. You would use those on the back of the patchbay and TRS-TRS on the front.
 
ecc83 said:
Great minds BSG!
Yes, because most of the sources are stereo this PB really needs to be stereo as well. Keeping track of lefts and rights would be a PITA and a recipe for cockups.

Dave.
Click to expand...

Plus you get double the patch points in the same space.
 
All patchbays always connect front-to-back. Top Rear 1 is always connected to Top Front 1.

They never connect left-to-right (unless you patch it yourself). Top Rear 1 never connects to Top Rear 2.

When a patchbay is normalled, it's always top-to-bottom. That is Top Rear 1 connects to Bottom Rear 1, never to Top Rear 2. I've always understood that with a "full-normalled" connection, this is always true no matter what is plugged into the front, and that "half-normalled" means that it is true until and unless something is plugged into the Bottom Front in the same up/down column. I have seen other people use different terms, but the latter is the way I always run my patchbays:

Top Rear X is an output from some source. Bottom Rear X is the input to which I figure that output will most often go. If I want it to go to a different input on column Y, I plug from Top Front X to Bottom Front Y. Now the signal from Top Rear X is actually still going to Bottom Rear X, as well as following the patch to the input on Bottom Rear Y. It's okay to split line level signals via straight wore. The output on Top Rear Y is no longer connected to anything, though, because it's half-normalled, and plugging into the Bottom Front Y broke the up-down connection. It's not okay to mix line level signals via straight wire.

Get one with more points than you think you need right now. Not only will your needs likely grow soon, but if the spare modules come out easily, they are the ultimate stage and studio adapter. They can be used to extend a pair of 1/4" cables (which are almost always male on both ends, right?) or as a quick, easy, and reliable Y-cable.

Grab the Whirlwind if you can. The cables are correct also, but if you don't need 10'...
 
PSG01640 - PRO SIGNAL - PHONO PLUG, METAL, RED | CPC

ACPS-GB - AMPHENOL - 6.35MM JACK PLUG, 3P, BLACK | CPC

269-003C - VAN DAMME - VANDAMME 1 PAIR RED 100M | CPC

That is the result of less than 5 mins searching and you could certainly do better on price than that.
You don't actually need "balanced" cable for the RCA-TRS leads, just two screened cables but I have found single core screened very little cheaper than twin and you need two core for the patch leads anyway.

Or......http://cpc.farnell.com/pulse/pls00122/6-35mm-jack-to-2x-phono-plgs-3m/dp/AV18925

Dave.
 
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