The New Tone Thread

That is a fun little exercise. I haven't even heard of those Marshall Clones. But it is what it is. Thanks for clearing up that 1987 and 1959 thing Greg. I use those presets on sometimes in my amp sims and always just thought they were the years. I won't even bring those to this table HaHa.
 
ShanPeyton said:
That is a fun little exercise. I haven't even heard of those Marshall Clones. But it is what it is. Thanks for clearing up that 1987 and 1959 thing Greg. I use those presets on sometimes in my amp sims and always just thought they were the years. I won't even bring those to this table HaHa.
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Yeah nothing Marshall does makes sense. 1987 and 1959 has nothing to do with years. Their master volume lineup that came a little later goes by 2203 (100 watts) and 2204 (50 watts). Then there are 2205s, 2210s, 2500s, 4100s, 6100s, and on and on. None of it makes sense. You just have to be a Marshall fanboy to get it.

They also go by prefixes like JTM, JMP, JCM, etc.

So if you said "hey I got a JMP 1987", I'd think it's probably a 70s era metal-face non master volume 50 watt. Great amp. Congrats! :D
 
Greg_L said:
Probably not since hipsters generally don't play Marshalls.
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HahaHa. Very true. But thanks for taking the time to educate me a little. I am not at all a fanboy but i can definitely hear differences in the old Marshalls compared to the newer ones the odd time i get the pleasure of seeing two "good" bands in one night. I just don't know the sorcery behind the Marshall Magic.

On of the guys i hang out with here did an instore demo of old Marshall and new Marshalls too at one of their little workshops. Right down to the cab and speakers. It was pretty cool the difference that was in your face noticeable. I mean, maybe not to a girlfriend type of noticeable, but there were a few of us that were impressed. I have no idea what models they were though?

They also did a pretty cool demo of the handwired Vox amps and the regular ones. It didn't impress me to the point of wanting one anymore.
 
ShanPeyton said:
HahaHa. Very true. But thanks for taking the time to educate me a little. I am not at all a fanboy but i can definitely hear differences in the old Marshalls compared to the newer ones the odd time i get the pleasure of seeing two "good" bands in one night. I just don't know the sorcery behind the Marshall Magic.

On of the guys i hang out with here did an instore demo of old Marshall and new Marshalls too at one of their little workshops. Right down to the cab and speakers. It was pretty cool the difference that was in your face noticeable. I mean, maybe not to a girlfriend type of noticeable, but there were a few of us that were impressed. I have no idea what models they were though?

They also did a pretty cool demo of the handwired Vox amps and the regular ones. It didn't impress me to the point of wanting one anymore.
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There is a definite line in the sand with Marshall separating "vintage" and "modern". That line happened around 1990. The end of the single channel JCM 800 was the end of the "vintage era". The JCM 900s were the bridge into the modern era for Marshall, and they never really got their mojo back until they started making the reissues, which in my opinion are very good. The 900s and JCM 2000 DSL/TSL series are cool amps, but they definitely don't have that classic vintage Marshall sound that most people chase after. The JVM is a monster of versatility and it sounds awesome, but it's no JCM 800. There is something about those old style no-frills basic Marshalls that just kicks ass.
 
You know dude, after I listened to that clip I posted tonight after coming in from work, I'm gonna delete it from my Dropbox...hahaha Pretty sure it's the mic placement dude, that's the greenback speaker & I've gotten pretty decent sounds with that amp/speaker/mic combo, so I'm gonna blame it on the mic placement...LOL...I'll try it again here in just a while...

Shan, I'm a big Marshall fanboy, guess you've realized that, but the Gerg has gotten me into all this shit, & there ain't no going back..:D.While his 1987x is definitely a bad-ass amp (I was originally gonna get on just like it, then I was talking with a guy about building me an 18w version, then, found the Chupacabra for a pretty good price, so I jumped on it...), I like my Ceriatone really, really well, it suits me/my style/sounds so much better, & at a lot more friendly volume...

Damn motherfuckers I work for dropped the bomb on us tonight, probably every Saturday until Thanksgiving, which will be like 5 in a row...Sucks balls, but the extra $$$ will definitely come in handy, I just hate putting the fuckin' time in to get it....Ok, rant over, gonna go shower, be back in a little while to try & redeem myself with that shitty clip I posted earlier today...
 
minerman said:
the Gerg has gotten me into all this shit
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Blame Lt Bob. He was the guy that really got me into all this shit and since then it has consumed me....and my money. I jumped in with both feet and have been reading and studying and trying every amp I come across. I was using other people's amps to record my tracks a while back and finally decided to get my own shit. I wanted to go small low-watt and he gave me some ideas. I tried em out, bought a few, sold a few, and eventually ended up with the monster amps Lt Bob said I was gonna end up with all along. :laughings:
 
Nah dude, I'll just blame you....LOL....It's funny we both went the low-watt route, but ended up with the big boys in the end, to me, the big amps are much easier to record (well, I'd gotten so used to recording my little amps, & jumping through hoops to get 'em to sound decent, it's taking time to get used to the big amps now...hahahaha) IMO...

I was gonna post another clip last night, but was just too tired to fuck with it....I'll record another one here in a few minutes...
 
I really wanted to go the little amp route. I tried a whole bunch of them. Many of them sounded very good. But goddammit, none of them sound as good and right as the big ones. Maybe my ears are too refined, or maybe they're too dumb, but to me the big amps through big cabs are THE sound for what I like. I feel I've been getting some killer guitar tracks, and I'll put my live-at-a-gig sound up against anyone's in my area and genre.

And really, I'm thinking the little amp for recording craze is a bit of a lie. Just my opinion. Not a total lie, but it's a little misleading. It's an empty promise. A 5 watt tube amp is loud. A one watt amp is loud. A one watt amp feeding a Vintage 30 speaker is 100 db. That's way way louder than your TV. It's loud enough to get the cops called if you live in an apartment. It's too loud for recording when your baby is asleep. It's loud enough to piss off your wife while she's trying to watch Oprah. But it's not loud enough to really get a speaker moving some air. And those little amps don't have enough headroom to get that depth and dynamic big amp feel and sound. So besides taking up little space, where's the real advantage? Honestly, you might as well just use sims.
 
Greg_L said:
I really wanted to go the little amp route. I tried a whole bunch of them. Many of them sounded very good. But goddammit, none of them sound as good and right as the big ones. Maybe my ears are too refined, or maybe they're too dumb, but to me the big amps through big cabs are THE sound for what I like. I feel I've been getting some killer guitar tracks, and I'll put my live-at-a-gig sound up against anyone's in my area and genre.
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This ^ is where I'm at right now dude, other than my single 4x12, which would probably blow away any of the guys' rigs I know locally...I'm actually doing some research on the 65's while I type this...I've got the V30, T-75 & Greenback for the ISO cab, I think a 65 would round out my speaker choices nicely....I'm torn between going with a "real" Celestion & the WGS clone...The WGS would be much cheaper, but I've been reading the low end isn't as good with these speakers as the Celestions...Maybe it's just bad reviews, I dunno...I don't have the funds to play "speaker shopping", & keep buying because they're not what I wanted, sound-wise...I've also read the new Celestion 65's (even heard this from you) aren't up to par with the old ones, & to be honest, I'm really wary of buying used, vintage-y speakers online because they're expensive to begin with, & I'm paranoid about used shit...hahaha

Greg_L said:
And really, I'm thinking the little amp for recording craze is a bit of a lie. Just my opinion. Not a total lie, but it's a little misleading. It's an empty promise. A 5 watt tube amp is loud. A one watt amp is loud. A one watt amp feeding a Vintage 30 speaker is 100 db. That's way way louder than your TV. It's loud enough to get the cops called if you live in an apartment. It's too loud for recording when your baby is asleep. It's loud enough to piss off your wife while she's trying to watch Oprah. But it's not loud enough to really get a speaker moving some air. And those little amps don't have enough headroom to get that depth and dynamic big amp feel and sound. So besides taking up little space, where's the real advantage? Honestly, you might as well just use sims.
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I do have to say, with the old, home-made ISO box I had, & the little DSL-1, I was getting some great tones. Not 1987x or Chupa tones, but still pretty damn good, at almost silent noise levels...the new Randall ISO cab IMHO, isn't as good as the one I built, sound-wise, but it takes up a hell of a lot less space, & is much, much easier to tweak the mic position & move the cab around in the room, so it's a trade-off...

I remember when I first rolled my 4x12 in here, the first thing I did was hook up my little amps just to see how loud they really are through a proper cab...The T15 is surprisingly loud dude, probably loud enough to use in a band....The DSL-1 is loud as fuck too, for a 1w amp....

This has been a lot of fun (the little amp thing), but honestly, I wish I'd just bit the bullet a couple years ago, & bought a full sized head/cab...it would've saved me a lot of time, & money. But, I was walking on fuckin' eggshells too with the ex-wife, trying to compromise my shit to make her happy, but no more...From now on, if I'm gonna be with a woman, she's just gonna have to deal with my noisy, loud as fuck playing/recording hobby, or hit the fuckin' bricks....:laughings:.
 
Greg_L said:
Honestly, you might as well just use sims.
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Which is what i have done. HaHa. I had a friends little MG50 that i borrowed to do some recordings but for all the reasons you have listed above Re: Apartments, neighbors, co-habitants etc. That juice wasn't worth the squeeze. I was unhappy with the tones i got. Probably because i had no clue how to really properly mic and amp and my little 10 x 10 room kind of sucked. I ended up just using sims and dealing with it. Not the awesomest solution, i know. But it was the common sense one at the time. Though i did managed to get my ears a little happier and threats from my neighbors became few and far between.

I will start shopping around once i get in and settled at this new place in the event my bro doesn't want me to baby sit his amp. I think though even if he does i may still go shopping just because.
 
minerman said:
This ^ is where I'm at right now dude, other than my single 4x12, which would probably blow away any of the guys' rigs I know locally...I'm actually doing some research on the 65's while I type this...I've got the V30, T-75 & Greenback for the ISO cab, I think a 65 would round out my speaker choices nicely....I'm torn between going with a "real" Celestion & the WGS clone...The WGS would be much cheaper, but I've been reading the low end isn't as good with these speakers as the Celestions...Maybe it's just bad reviews, I dunno...I don't have the funds to play "speaker shopping", & keep buying because they're not what I wanted, sound-wise...I've also read the new Celestion 65's (even heard this from you) aren't up to par with the old ones, & to be honest, I'm really wary of buying used, vintage-y speakers online because they're expensive to begin with, & I'm paranoid about used shit...hahaha
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I've heard the WGS ET65s in a JCM 800 2x12 combo and thought they sounded good. Sound clips found at the WGS site sound great. I was gonna buy some myself until my buddy's authentic original G12-65s fell into my lap. They really are as if a Greenback and a G12T-75 had a baby. They're the exact tonal middle ground between the two speakers. They have a bigger bottom end and smoother mids than a Greenback, but they're not as trebly and ice-picky as G12T-75s. Good speakers. For me, I really like them paired with my JMP 2204 or the JCM 800. It's no surprise that it works, those speakers were designed for use with Marshalls master volume amps of the time period.

The Heritage reissue 65s don't have that same smoothness. They're a little harsh to me. It could be that I've just never heard them really broken in. I think if you're looking to get a G12-65, get an original or the WGS clone.

I'll do a Plexi/G12-65 clip for you so you can hear em in action.
 
ShanPeyton said:
Which is what i have done. HaHa. I had a friends little MG50 that i borrowed to do some recordings but for all the reasons you have listed above Re: Apartments, neighbors, co-habitants etc. That juice wasn't worth the squeeze. I was unhappy with the tones i got. Probably because i had no clue how to really properly mic and amp and my little 10 x 10 room kind of sucked. I ended up just using sims and dealing with it. Not the awesomest solution, i know. But it was the common sense one at the time. Though i did managed to get my ears a little happier and threats from my neighbors became few and far between.

I will start shopping around once i get in and settled at this new place in the event my bro doesn't want me to baby sit his amp. I think though even if he does i may still go shopping just because.
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Lol. Yeah, the MG Marshalls are poo. A sim is a thousand times better than MG solid state garbage. I see dudes roll their MG halfstacks on stage at shows and I run for the door. It's snobby of me, yeah, I know, but I'm never wrong for doing it. They sound terrible.
 
Yo minerman here's a clip I just knocked out for ya.

Same as before, Les Paul, 1959SLP, everything on 5, PPIMV @ 12:00, blah blah blah.
No jumped channels. High input 1 only.
1960A 4x12 G12-65. These 65s I have are Oct/Nov 1980 or 1981 - can't remember exactly. But they are definitely 80 or 81.
A single SM57 on axis on grill somewhere around halfway to edge. I just stuck it in front. I usually peek through the grill cloth with a flashlight to get it right on the spot I want, but I just stuck this one willy-nilly. It's about halfway, maybe just outside the dustcap.

Slutter

Now to me, just my own opinion, this is pretty bad ass. Lol. There's a reason I keep two of these speakers in the same cab as my trusty Greenbacks. They're a match made in heaven for any of my amps.
 
Greg_L said:
Lol. Yeah, the MG Marshalls are poo. A sim is a thousand times better than MG solid state garbage. I see dudes roll their MG halfstacks on stage at shows and I run for the door. It's snobby of me, yeah, I know, but I'm never wrong for doing it. They sound terrible.
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YES!!!!

They suck ...... I have a little MG 15 wifey bought me and pretty much every other practice amp on Earth is as good or better.

It shocks me a little when I see people including them in lists of Marshall gear ...... the only thing Marshall about them is the nameplate.
 
Greg_L said:
.
A single SM57 on axis on grill somewhere around halfway to edge. I just stuck it in front. I usually peek through the grill cloth with a flashlight to get it right on the spot I want, but I just stuck this one willy-nilly. It's about halfway, maybe just outside the dustcap.
.
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that's where I like to put 'em ...... I know you usually go closer to the dustcap but that always seems too bright when I do it although your tones are awesome so sometimes I'll try it your way but it doesn't seem to work for me.
 
Cool man, you know, I love KISS too...they're a big reason I wanted to play guitar...."Rock & Roll Over" on my sister's 8-track when I was a kid, probably 7-8 years old...LOL...

That sounds great man, I might see if I can swing buying a speaker this week, depends on the bills I've gotta pay out...I probably can, but won't be able to do anything but go to work for the next week, but, that's all I fuckin' do anyway....hahaha Sounds great man!!!

Ok, here's a clip of my amps in a little mix (just guitars), & I already know the Chupa side is boxy, & needs some work/tweaking, but the DSL side sounds pretty damn good I think...

Signal chain:

LP > Chupa/DSL > Greenback ISO cab > '57 > reverb in daw

Chupacabra:
Resonance: 8
Presence: 10
Bass: 8
Mid: 7
Treble: 7
Master: 3
Gain 2: 8
Gain 1: 10
Era: plexi
Bright 2: C
Bright 1: C
Focus: On/engaged

DSL:
100w mode
Resonance: 5
Presence: 8
Bass: 8
Mid: 5
Treble: 6
Master: 3
Gain: 6
OD 1

Chupa & DSL mix

I think I'm starting to figure the new ISO cab out a little more too, while in principal, it's the same as a regular cab or the "tank" (home-made ISO box I built....I actually miss that big 'ol thing in a way, while it looked like shit, I'd learned how to get pretty decent sounds from it....but, it's gone now.....hahaha) I built, it's still just a little different regarding the mic placement....All in all though, it does a pretty good job at keeping the noise down, which is the whole reason I bought it....

Just checked the WGS site, & a new ET65 is $70.....but the fuckin' shipping is like $21!!!! Wow man....LOL..It's still cheaper than a Celestion though, I might pull the trigger on one, dunno....From time to time, I see these old Celestions pop up in the Marshall forum, might check there too, but again, I'm wary of buying old/used speakers online dude. I know everything's a crap shoot, but I dunno about some of these things, especially speakers....

Gotta run, time for work, be back in about 11-12 hours....
 
Lt. Bob said:
that's where I like to put 'em ...... I know you usually go closer to the dustcap but that always seems too bright when I do it although your tones are awesome so sometimes I'll try it your way but it doesn't seem to work for me.
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It really depends on the speaker for me. The dustcap/cone seam is my general starting/reference point, but some speakers have tiny dustcaps and some have giant dustcaps. On a speaker with a small dustcap, like a Greenback or Vintage 30, I'll usually go further outside of the dustcap because that's where the meat it is. The seam area is pretty bright on those speakers. On speakers with big dustcaps, you can get closer to the center and it's a little more forgiving, but they can get really spiky or really woofy if you go too far either way. And if I'm doing something really clean, like my occasional surfy stuff, I'll go even further out closer to the edge. The center 1/3 to 1/2 area is way way too bright even for me with clean tones.

minerman said:
Cool man, you know, I love KISS too...they're a big reason I wanted to play guitar...."Rock & Roll Over" on my sister's 8-track when I was a kid, probably 7-8 years old...LOL...

That sounds great man, I might see if I can swing buying a speaker this week, depends on the bills I've gotta pay out...I probably can, but won't be able to do anything but go to work for the next week, but, that's all I fuckin' do anyway....hahaha Sounds great man!!!

Ok, here's a clip of my amps in a little mix (just guitars), & I already know the Chupa side is boxy, & needs some work/tweaking, but the DSL side sounds pretty damn good I think...

Signal chain:

LP > Chupa/DSL > Greenback ISO cab > '57 > reverb in daw

Chupacabra:
Resonance: 8
Presence: 10
Bass: 8
Mid: 7
Treble: 7
Master: 3
Gain 2: 8
Gain 1: 10
Era: plexi
Bright 2: C
Bright 1: C
Focus: On/engaged

DSL:
100w mode
Resonance: 5
Presence: 8
Bass: 8
Mid: 5
Treble: 6
Master: 3
Gain: 6
OD 1

Chupa & DSL mix

I think I'm starting to figure the new ISO cab out a little more too, while in principal, it's the same as a regular cab or the "tank" (home-made ISO box I built....I actually miss that big 'ol thing in a way, while it looked like shit, I'd learned how to get pretty decent sounds from it....but, it's gone now.....hahaha) I built, it's still just a little different regarding the mic placement....All in all though, it does a pretty good job at keeping the noise down, which is the whole reason I bought it....

Just checked the WGS site, & a new ET65 is $70.....but the fuckin' shipping is like $21!!!! Wow man....LOL..It's still cheaper than a Celestion though, I might pull the trigger on one, dunno....From time to time, I see these old Celestions pop up in the Marshall forum, might check there too, but again, I'm wary of buying old/used speakers online dude. I know everything's a crap shoot, but I dunno about some of these things, especially speakers....

Gotta run, time for work, be back in about 11-12 hours....
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That's pretty good once they both get going. The whole thing does seem a little boxy/tubby. Might be the iso-box and reverb causing too much boxiness. I'm assuming the Chupacabra is on the left? Both of the general tones sound good and work well together. It's just the bouncy boomy boxiness that's throwing it off for me.

I also see your volumes are still pretty low. I mean, I know "3" is generally kind of loud, but with 50/100 watt amps you're not really getting them going yet. Get those legs stretched out. Crank up that volume some more and reduce the gain a hair. See how it goes. :D
 
Greg_L said:
That's pretty good once they both get going. The whole thing does seem a little boxy/tubby. Might be the iso-box and reverb causing too much boxiness. I'm assuming the Chupacabra is on the left? Both of the general tones sound good and work well together. It's just the bouncy boomy boxiness that's throwing it off for me.
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You know, maybe the whole boxy issue I'm having is the fuckin' reverb I've been putting on it...but, I'm sure the ISO cab has a little to do with it too....Just gotta keep after it...I remember having to do this with the "tank" when I first built it...

Greg_L said:
I also see your volumes are still pretty low. I mean, I know "3" is generally kind of loud, but with 50/100 watt amps you're not really getting them going yet. Get those legs stretched out. Crank up that volume some more and reduce the gain a hair. See how it goes. :D
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Well dude, I'm running a 50/100 watt amp into a single, 25w speaker...I don't wanna risk blowing my Greenback trying to get the volume up equal with a 4x12...That's another issue I'm gonna have to fix, I've only got the single Greenback, & I know the DSL would fry that fucker if I cranked it in 100w mode, no doubt about it...I'm gonna have to get either a couple more speakers for the ISO cab, or another 2x12 or 4x12 loaded with something that can handle my amps...

Gonna grab a shower & something to eat....be back shortly...maybe....hahaha
 
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