Sooooooo tired of fake drum threads.

[miroslav]

Samples and such have their place. A good example. But it seems to me that they are completely, overwhelmingly monopolizing the field.

But do you really think any of that will be changed by having a new forum for every mutation and new sub-sub category that comes along?
I mean...if there are only a few drummers posting now...why do you think there would be more if you removed all the drum sample talk...???

Most of us are straddling old and new technologies and techniques....and threads will often swing through a variety of side discussions while at the same time still relating to the original topic.
IMO...the threads are already doing what you want...creating sub-sub categories within a broader general forum, and I think it serves HR better to have less forums than more.
Sure, on the surface it seems that lots of "specialized" forums will draw more people...but look around HR...is that the case?
No.
Instead you have a LOT forums that are nothing more than thread graveyards...with only 1-2 posts a day, if that.

Concentrating a variety of threads/discussion into LESS forums yields more involved discussions with greater participation, and people consider other ideas rather than just clinging to their singular perspectives. I would think that's the best case for open forums...lots of discussion, rather than a small, private club atmosphere in a lot of segregated forums....but YMMV....

Well kind of, but you chalk it up to resources, I chalk it up to interest. If you have the interest, you'll find a way to get the stuff. You presumably did it with guitar. And you yourself have a kit, a nice room, and plenty of mics.. you don't have those things you listed as holding home rec'ers back holding you back, yet you still use drum software.. I'd assume the one ingredient you lack is the interest to learn.

Man... I got guitars, keyboards, drums, pedal steel guitar, a bunch of didgeridoos, a sitar...etc...etc.
It's one thing to learn how to play all of those things...it's another thing to learn how to play them very well so that you can just bang out a track 1-2-3 and it sounds like you wanted it to, and not like someone who just "knows how to play".

I mean...it's not for lack of desire. I would LOVE to have stuck with drums way back when I first dabbled with them...but I also wanted to focus on guitars and on keys...so there just wasn't enough time to squeeze it all in. I mean, back in my youth I also wanted to learn to play sax...but my teacher thought it would make more sense to learn on the clarinet and then just add the sax, since they were close cousins...only trouble was, I hated the sound of the clarinet...so I gave up on both.

Anyway...these days...I don't get to spend enough time playing guitar, which is what I like to do most...so there's little chance of me learning to be a really good drummer who can play all the shit I hear in my head...stuff that I can easily program when my drummer isn't available.

Wait, so your drummer doesn't know how to play?

He knows...I don't.

 

[Jake_JW]

I always assumed the drum section was for drums (real deal)

I assumed the same - isn't it a forum for stuff about the actual drums themselves not about recording mic techniques/advice (recording techniques section) or programming them (MIDI/VST sections) - getting people to stick to the forum posting rules seems more sensible than making another place for people to post the 'wrong' threads.

Nothing anyone can do about newbies mis-posting, I guess the real trick is to look for clues like 'critique this', 'EZ Drummer', 'programming' or the names of any plugins/software and just not read/reply to those threads...

 

[miroslav]

I isn't it a forum for stuff about the actual drums themselves ...

You may be right...in it's original design, it may have been about that...but, if there just aren't man y people talking about that stuff...it has nothing to do with the fact that there people talking about drum samples.

I mean...I don't see where one topic discourages the other in either direction. Both can be had...BUT some needs to come in and post about drums...just like someone posts about drum samples.

 

[Dicus]

I'd say that the biggest difference between real and MIDI drums is the way the drum parts are written. My biggest objection against MIDI drums is that most of the drum parts are immensely boring to play and to listen to especially when, as a drummer, the drum parts are a rhythm part of why I like a song. Obviously also natural feeling timing is a thing that often lacks in MIDI drums but it is not the thing that annoys me most.
Splitting the two in two different forums would make the drumming forum more interesting but all questions on writing drum parts would be split up in two forums, that might be a shame...

 

[DM60]

I'd say that the biggest difference between real and MIDI drums is the way the drum parts are written. My biggest objection against MIDI drums is that most of the drum parts are immensely boring to play and to listen to especially when, as a drummer, the drum parts are a rhythm part of why I like a song. Obviously also natural feeling timing is a thing that often lacks in MIDI drums but it is not the thing that annoys me most.
Splitting the two in two different forums would make the drumming forum more interesting but all questions on writing drum parts would be split up in two forums, that might be a shame...

Now, I think you hit on something. Writing drum parts. There are things about real drums that are about real drums, then there are how to record drums (which I think is a real topic), then there are playing styles (real drums) and MIDI writing techniques.

I think real drums, playing and recording them are different enough that I can understand wanting a different forum. I now think more importantly a MIDI drum section has a lot of merit and probably enough variables that it could be broken out and garner interest.

 

[miroslav]

I'd say that the biggest difference between real and MIDI drums is the way the drum parts are written. My biggest objection against MIDI drums is that most of the drum parts are immensely boring to play and to listen to especially when, as a drummer, the drum parts are a rhythm part of why I like a song. Obviously also natural feeling timing is a thing that often lacks in MIDI drums but it is not the thing that annoys me most.
Splitting the two in two different forums would make the drumming forum more interesting but all questions on writing drum parts would be split up in two forums, that might be a shame...

The flip side...is when you segregate the MIDI/Dum sample discussions...those people will keep on programming boring drum parts, because they won't have that direct connection to the real drum playing discussions.

To me...it's about the drum tracks we end up with....and what makes them sound good...regardless if it's sample or some guy hitting his Pearl kit and Paiste cymbals. How drums are played applies to both real and sampled drums.

If the Drum forum is going to be just about real drum equipment discussions....mmmm, OK....but I never saw it as just that.

 

[DM60]

The flip side...is when you segregate the MIDI/Dum sample discussions...those people will keep on programming boring drum parts, because they won't have that direct connection to the real drum playing discussions.

It is not programming, it is writing drum parts. Programming is "If Y=X, then Z, else do A", that is programming.

To me...it's about the drum tracks we end up with....and what makes them sound good...regardless if it's sample or some guy hitting his Pearl kit and Paiste cymbals. How drums are played applies to both real and sampled drums.

I think some areas are close, but playing drums and how one writes drums to MIDI are not exactly the same.

If the Drum forum is going to be just about real drum equipment discussions....mmmm, OK....but I never saw it as just that.

3rd point, I could go either way, just always thought of it is about real drums, how to tune, skins, etc.

 

[cafehonda]

I tried this new thing: I don't read or post in topics I couldn't give two shits about. It's like a miracle drug, without the miracle or the drug. And it's free.

 

[Resurrect]

I tried this new thing: I don't read or post in topics I couldn't give two shits about. It's like a miracle drug, without the miracle or the drug. And it's free.

Then.... What was that post just about?

 

[Farview]

I had a real early 80's Ludwig double bass set with a ton of cymbals, all the mics, stands, etc... needed to record them, and I did record them when I had the studio.

Now that the studio is gone and I moved 2000 across the country into a small-ish house in a neighborhood, real drums are just not practical. I sold the drums and got a good deal on a V-drum kit and use either my drumagog samples or Steven Slate's. It's really the only way I can get it done in the situation I'm in now.

I do, however, treat the samples as if they were a recording of a real kit. I use the same strategies to get the sound I want in the mix. The only thing different is that I'm not doing any mic placement or tuning anymore.

 

[Resurrect]

Only radical goofballs and morons don't understand that some people really don't have another option. And you can get good sounding drum tracks from samples. I don't argue that at all.

 

[miroslav]

It is not programming, it is writing drum parts. Programming is "If Y=X, then Z, else do A", that is programming.

It's a term that I've seen people using...probably because they see a DAW and plugs/samples as "programming".
"Writing" is not correct either.
The correct term from before DAWs when MIDI was the big deal....is "sequencing"...and the programs we used (like the original Cubase for Atari) were called MIDI sequencers ('m sure there still are).
So you actually create a MIDI drum sequence.

I think some areas are close, but playing drums and how one writes drums to MIDI are not exactly the same.



3rd point, I could go either way, just always thought of it is about real drums, how to tune, skins, etc.

Well I guess it's how people want to perceive the forum's purpose. *shrug*
If you look at the forum description, there's nothing there about "drum equipment" or any one specific thing other than getting a drum sound.
It says:

"Beat it here...how do you get that Led Zeppelin sound? Who is Led Zeppelin anyway? Etc."

That to me could apply equally to beating on a Kit or beating on pad to trigger a Kit sample...how do you get a drum sound.

What forum do electronic drums go in...?

 

[DM60]

It's a term that I've seen people using...probably because they see a DAW and plugs/samples as "programming".
"Writing" is not correct either.
The correct term from before DAWs when MIDI was the big deal....is "sequencing"...and the programs we used (like the original Cubase for Atari) were called MIDI sequencers ('m sure there still are).
So you actually create a MIDI drum sequence.

I could live with sequencing. My first MIDI program in the 80's (not Atari, but IBM Compatible) was a sequencer. So yea, that would probably be the best term for it.

 

[miroslav]

I think it just faded away for some reason....and then with the DAW and all that it can do, the term "programming" came into use.

Speaking of MIDI drum sequencing....man, now that was a real PITA!

That shit took a LOT of work to even get a half-decent drum track...but today's app from Slate, Toontrack, AD....blow that out of the water. You're still doing MIDI sequencing, but the quality of the apps both for sequencing duties and the samples they come with, is just miles beyond those Cubase/Atari days!

 

[Resurrect]

You all are now speaking the language of the ancients. And one that I am not well versed in at all. Might as well be writing in hieroglyphs

 

[RFR]

Speaking of ancients. I used to do all that with a commodore 64.
Yeah, it got pitched over a deck rail to its death onto concrete. A 20 foot fall for a computer is a hard thing to recover from.

 

[Resurrect]

Hehe.

 

[Tadpui]

Speaking of ancients. I used to do all that with a commodore 64.
Yeah, it got pitched over a deck rail to its death onto concrete. A 20 foot fall for a computer is a hard thing to recover from.

Did you try turning it off and back on again?

 

[miroslav]

OK...sit down....'cuz you'll probably laugh...

...I still have my original Atari computer...still works...still has the original Cubase loaded. I also have two more Atari computers that I picked up as backups, and a couple of Atari monochrome, 13" CRT monitors.

I finally went through that stuff this summer and piled it up with the intention to unload it on eBay. I could probably pick up a few hundred bucks for the pile as there are still Atari aficionados out there...and even guys who like using that original Cubase sequencer. I even have a Streinberg Midex MIDI extender for the Atari (rare as hen's teeth) with two key dongles for Cubase.

 

[fat_fleet]

My favorite example of that is when you have a hat pattern that continues unchanged right on top of a complex snare and tom fill.

Well, plenty of bands have two drummers and do that stuff organically.