Starting thought process of what is needed

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Eclipse4449

Eclipse4449

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I have nothing at this point including knowledge. So it begins
I am a one man band, multi instrumentalist and just at the beginning getting everything in my basement studio hooked up (lots to do yet I know).
I'm posting this because part of my studio will be green screen video creation or at least I hope so anyway. So where do I start?

My first project is to record me playing all of my instrument and appear to be playing on a stage or in front of a background image. I've seen several videos of people recording themselves playing all of the parts of their song in separate boxes and that is nice but not what I am looking for. What I hope to do (if this is possible) is install a green screen the length of my 25' basement wall, maybe some on the floor and/or ceiling because it is only 7 1/2' tall. My vision is to place my drums dead center, place X's on the floor where I would stand with my Bass, my Guitar, and so on and replace the live instrument with a video version of it, one piece at a time. I'm guessing a video recorder ( I don't own yet) will have a wide enough angle to capture the sound stage (25') without moving it?

And what video software is capable of this kind of editing? I would be ok with the result that it looks like I'm using a green screen, This is all new to me and I don't expect to do what peaople with years of experience can achieve. I just don't want to waste money of stuff I would later replace for something better.

Subjects above:
How Green screen a basement wall 25' x 7 1/2' ?
What kind of equipment is needed for Green screen recording?
What software can handle cloning me as I described above?
 
There are plenty here that will help you much more. But the video editing software, there are many that really doesn't cost too much. I was using MovieStudio for awhile. But there are others, I will let more knowledgeable people give recommendations.

Not sure about the 25 foot green screen. Seems like a lot of green screen. But you do want enough lights so that you don't get shadows. I don't think you want to clone, rather place each version of you in a particular place. I think that is a simple cropping and positioning on the software timeline. I do think you will need something, like a clapper or clap, to sync all instances of your playing. I think that will be the hardest part is the syncing. Get the lights right and the syncing right, should be rather easy from there.

I suggest mixing and mastering in a DAW, render and place that in the movie software.

You will be pretty busy per song for sure.
 
Your basic idea is fine. Mount a green screen, then take four or five videos of you in different spots.

Most video editors can deal with overlaid green screen takes. I use Vegas Movie Studio for this kind of thing. (It's not called Vegas now, but I can never remember the new name. I've just always known it as Vegas).

The biggest challenge you face will be lighting . . . getting light on the subject with casting shadows on the screen, and getting an even light on the screen itself.
 
The first thing is that you do not need a camera that covers a huge area and then do x marks the spot. All you need is one large enough to give you green on all sides. Then you turn to face the direction that will be correct when you shrink the image and place it on the background. Sizes and angles are VERY important. The real snag is if you want to edit it like a real music video - so camera cuts. Let's imagine you want a wide shot from towards one side of the virtual audience space, a centre line perhaps half body, and then one maybe looking up, as if a pit cam style thing. The difficulty is that each shot needs a different perspective background. It's vital you work out the images you use in the background - and remember the floor and backdrop or whatever transition must be in the right place.

The other difficulty will be remembering your movements. If you are, for example, playing bass, you need to remember where the headstock points and where you are looking so when you cut cameras, they are in the same place. Often this doesn't work, so you'll need to then cutaway to a different shot tot stop the edit being obvious.

All the popular editors can do pretty good green screen if the material is good. Often it is not! The problem is lighting the green screen really, really evenly. Some editors have better keyers - the ultra key in Premiere that I use is excellent even on poorly lit backdrops. My studio isn't huge but for just me chatting, I have a key light, a back light, a Fresnel as a fill and then 4 LED flat panels to light the green screen and still I get the occasional crease that takes effort to remove.

What you plan to do - if you want it to be realistic is hours of work for a 3 minute song. It's also much easier with two people. If it's drums, bass, guitar and say keys - and three camera angles, that's a minimum of 12 recordings. All must match. They won't. So you probably have to do 24 to have more chance of one being 'right' every edit.

I have this ancient test clip where I was trying perspective and image sizes on virtual backgrounds with overlays. I just filled the screen we lots of me. No sync, no matching and no angle changes. It just takes planning.
 
How far can you get from your 25' wall? You will need to do some calculation to find a lens that will cover it. If the distance is too small, it's going to be an odd perspective. The versions of you that are toward the edge will be angled away unless you angle "everyone" in a bit to compensate, and even then it won't look natural.
 
The other snag us wasted pixels in 4K or HD having little people in the real space really prevents you doing much with size. In HD with 1920 pixels width a person in scale size is what? 200 pixels wide? This limits even small zooms before they pixelate and the edge keying goes ragged. Much better to fill the frame and shrink it.4K realistically only increases pixel count in one direction by 2!
 
The Rob second from right gets his shoe chopped off now and then.
Also, the Robs are of varying heights.
Impressive non the less.

Having 1 2 or 3 static cameras will lead to an overall static result.
Some movement of the camera makes it more interesting.
I'd like to do this kind of stuff, and shoot it on the actual take, so it appears live.
It means a lot of setting up of cameras, as well as the daw.
My rooms are too small to get proper perspective.
I planned for my players(me) to wear different long wigs, and found I couldn't see the instruments through all the hair.

Maybe you should start simple with separate boxes first.
 
I think the above comments on composition are right on.

RE: the software, it depends on what computer equipment you have, and what your budget it. If you're on a budget, I can recommend two options.

If you have the computer to run it, DaVinci Resolve has a free version and it will handle green screen. Its has lots of capabilities. https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve It requires at least 16GB RAM to run, but it's a pretty straightforward video program.

For audio, I use Reaper, and have done what was suggested above, mix the audio, and then paste the final audio track into the video. If your video has an audio track, you can use the video software to sync the new audio to the old track. Bandcamp is free, as is Ardour which is open source.

Obviously the fly in the ointment is that you need to learn the programs. They aren't like a browser or email program where you fire it up and can get running with minimal effort.
However you go, it's a very interesting hobby. The stuff you can do today for virtually nothing would have taken an entire studio with many hundreds of thousands of dollars of gear and several engineers in the past.
 
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This is amazing!!! Thank you all. I have to re-read everything here to see what I can realistically do
Thanks again
Ray
 
I think one rob is probably too many.

The trouble is that it is the time it takes that is the barrier. Plus spotting errors. I didn't notice the chopped bit and sync errors often crop up. Ive just noticed one of my videos has a sync error in one bit, but to fix it probably means another couple of hours work. If you are doing a 3 minute song, getting things to align smoothly is quite difficult. Daft things crop up. Syncing drums is actually pretty easy as you can see the timing, but a guitar looks right till suddenly you see something that is way out and you didnt notice.

This all said, i really hope you have a go because i think we would all like to see it.
 
So after reading all of your responses I realize my imagination sometimes is waaay bigger than reality. I was excited that I had a 25' blank wall which aligned with the idea I wanted to see all of my selves playing at the same time. So the first problem and first question. I have a Furnace/AC in the center of my basement, this means at the center of that 25' wall I have about 8' distances between the furnace and that wall, however (let's call it the West side of the basement) in front of the furnace I have roughly 15' that can see the length of that wall but that furnace will be in that scene, so in a nutshell, maybe 10' would see the wall without the furnace and then some options outside in my yard like against my garage.

Question, Lighting, are we talking about indirect lighting, shielded lights I can hang between my jousts?
 
I have only dabbled with the green screen, so I am not an expert. I think they LEDs on stands that you can adjust and at least two, probably three to you can get the light even. (Like no shadows). Amazon has many of them. Also, believe it or not, those PodCasters on YouTube has some very good tips and tricks. You might want to scour that and get some ideas.

I think it is cool you are doing it, just be ready for a learning curve. But I have to assume, learning is not a problem for you.
 
I also don't do green screen (I do actual live videos), but I think you need to light the screen in addition to lighting yourselves.
 
Shadows of any kind must be avoided. For the subject(s) ideally you need modelling light - which lets the viewer see that noses come out and eye sockets go in - and modelling light causes a shadow. You then fill in the shadow with a softer light that is on the other side. The harder light and even the softer one cast shadows on the background, so you use even softer light on the green screen. My blackmagic keyers in the switcher need the background to be VERY even. The keyer in Adobe Premiere can cope much better with the shadows you normally can't get rid of. At a pinch - lots of LED fluorescent replacements that are long, can be good to get decent light levels with fewer shadows for the greenscreen. I use LED panel lights - which are about 2ft wide and 1ft tall, hanging from my grid. Plenty of TV studios now only use LED softlight panels and the lighting is bright and very flat. The solution is slightly OTT makeup to create fake shadows on their faces. Easy with decent makeup people. Using softlight with no makeup is very bland looking - like an office, not a stage.

One thing - what are you going to use for the 'stage' image. The package I used in that example looks fake. Real photographs of stages also look fake without the stage lighting.
 
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A concert stage also has depth. I work in a theater (mostly plays, but also the occasional musical act) with a stage that's about 30' wide between the wings and 20' to the back curtain.
 
So the picture the right shows if I step forward a bit I have some depth however off center. the full kit and wiring was just to get the cabling semi where they are needed
 

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The thing with green screen is that you must think in two ways. 16:9 or just portrait. With the drums, they create shadows, so they need to be further from the wall, so think how you will get light behind the so the screen is lit evenly. Your height will be your prime issue. All you need to do is adjust the camera distance to max, so there is green on all sides, and of course the floor. You can use a green cloth on the floor, although i have painted my floor. You can try lights from the floor behind the kit where they cant be seen by the camera. You can do what you want in that space. Height is always an issue, and i have a route through dangling lights in my studio, because i have similar height to you. All you need is green on all sides of you and then you move that image to the right place.
 
The chrome drum parts are going to reflect the green too.
Nice drum kit!
 
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