US-1800 Questions

[Help Help]

1) The LEV switch on the back is in regards to Consumer(-10) and Pro(+4) right? Does this switch effect the mic inputs, or is it just for line-in? I had it on (-10) all this time sadly. Is there any reason to ever have it set at -10 in a DAW, or should it always be at +4?

2) Also, when using a ribbon mic or an SM7B(lower gain mics) with the US-1800, is it important to have a preamp? I've seen this suggested, but not sure if its just internet hyperbole or not. If so, can I use the preamp to add additional mic inputs?

3) If a preamp can be used for this, would I just use an XLR to TRS cable out from pre amp into line inputs, without issues or anything I should be aware of? Are line inputs 11-14 the same as inputs 9 and 10?

I'm sorry if these are stupid questions! Any part that anyone could answer would be a tremendous help to me, thank you so much for your time!

 

[jimmys69]

1) The LEV switch on the back is in regards to Consumer(-10) and Pro(+4) right? Does this switch effect the mic inputs, or is it just for line-in? I had it on (-10) all this time sadly. Is there any reason to ever have it set at -10 in a DAW, or should it always be at +4?

2) Also, when using a ribbon mic or an SM7B(lower gain mics) with the US-1800, is it important to have a preamp? I've seen this suggested, but not sure if its just internet hyperbole or not. If so, can I use the preamp to add additional mic inputs?

3) If a preamp can be used for this, would I just use an XLR to TRS cable out from pre amp into line inputs, without issues or anything I should be aware of? Are line inputs 11-14 the same as inputs 9 and 10?

I'm sorry if these are stupid questions! Any part that anyone could answer would be a tremendous help to me, thank you so much for your time!

From memory as I had this unit for quite a while:

I am not sure about the -10/+4 switch for the inputs. I thought they were for the outputs but just use what works for what you are using. I am just guessing here. Sure someone else will have a more accurate response.

The 1800 had 60 db or so of gain. It could run a SM7b or a ribbon mic, but not as well as a higher end preamp. You can add an additional preamp to gain 2 more channels only if it has digital outputs. Channels 15 and 16 use the Digital input from preamps. I used a ART DSP II I believe, that had digital (SPDIF) output that allowed use of the last of the 16 channels of the 1800.

Channels 9 and 10 run through the preamps. Not a clean 'line input'. It is more used for high z guitar inputs or to control the input level from supposed line level instruments. 11-14 are true line inputs without the preamp in the chain.

Hope this helps.

 

[rob aylestone]

If you are recording singing with lips almost on the grill the Tascam will be fine. Mine ran out of steam a little on speech from more than 6" or so. To get decent level it meant going a little too far around on the gain knob and there would be a raise in the noise floor. I rarely used the SM7B that far away, so never gave me issues - a cloud lifter is the usual device, but they're pricey things.

 

[ashcat_lt]

1) The LEV switch on the back is in regards to Consumer(-10) and Pro(+4) right? Does this switch effect the mic inputs, or is it just for line-in? I had it on (-10) all this time sadly. Is there any reason to ever have it set at -10 in a DAW, or should it always be at +4?

There are two of these switches. One controls line inputs 11/12 and the other is for 13/14. It has nothing to do with the mic inputs. It really is just a pad. The -10 setting will be hotter no matter what you’re plugging in. If that’s too hot, flip the switch. The noise floor on these inputs is pretty good, though, so for most things you could just set it to +4 and correct for gain in the box.

2) Also, when using a ribbon mic or an SM7B(lower gain mics) with the US-1800, is it important to have a preamp? I've seen this suggested, but not sure if its just internet hyperbole or not. If so, can I use the preamp to add additional mic inputs?

The (cheeeeeeap) ribbon that I have is too noisy with these preamps but I’m not sure that’s the preamp’s fault. If you were to use an external preamp, you’d preferably go balanced TRS to one of the line inputs. Remember that the front ones have the gain controls and the rear ones have the switches. If you were in a real pinch and all you other inputs were full, you could go to a mic input - just make sure phantom power is off.

 

[DM60]

I have not had any problems with the mic gain on mine. I usually keep the setting at about 1/2 for a condenser and 3/4 for a dynamic. I get plenty of gain to get a clean signal (clean signal is the key word here). If I need more gain, I do that in the DAW. You don't have to have a strong signal, just good enough to get full recording. After that, there are plenty of options.

As Ash_Cat stated about 11-14, simple pads. Negative means a hotter signal, + means lower signal. I use 9 and 10 for DI purposes, 1-8 for mics. 15/16 I have the unit Jimmy use to have. I don't use it much but it works and that is what is required to get 15/16 for good use (or you can use it as a some other input).

The replacement for that unit removes the SPDIF input and gives two more line inputs.

 

[jimmys69]

I have not had any problems with the mic gain on mine. I usually keep the setting at about 1/2 for a condenser and 3/4 for a dynamic. I get plenty of gain to get a clean signal (clean signal is the key word here). If I need more gain, I do that in the DAW. You don't have to have a strong signal, just good enough to get full recording. After that, there are plenty of options.

As Ash_Cat stated about 11-14, simple pads. Negative means a hotter signal, + means lower signal. I use 9 and 10 for DI purposes, 1-8 for mics. 15/16 I have the unit Jimmy use to have. I don't use it much but it works and that is what is required to get 15/16 for good use (or you can use it as a some other input).

The replacement for that unit removes the SPDIF input and gives two more line inputs.

Did I sell that ART DSP II to you? Man, memory goes first.... lol

I believe you (Help Help) have all the information you need for now. Great bunch of people here helping. Props to you guys!

 

[Help Help]

Yeah I've never had gain problems using the SM7B for vocals with the US-1800 either, wasn't sure if I was missing something, cause I often am. In this case I'm inquiring about using the 7B and ribbon mic for loud electric guitar, so it shouldn't matter.

Thank you all SO MUCH!!!! I have no one in real life to ask even the simplest and most amateur questions I have(and I have a lot of dumb questions ha), so I can't tell you how much it means to me that you all took the time to help me here, or how helpful it is for me. jimmys69, rob aylestone, ashcat, DM60, I wish I could buy you all a beer or something. If I get confused about something(which I invariably do) I might return to beg of more of your knowledge, but for now, this has all been tremendously helpful. Thank you all!!!!

 

[DM60]

Yeah I've never had gain problems using the SM7B for vocals with the US-1800 either, wasn't sure if I was missing something, cause I often am. In this case I'm inquiring about using the 7B and ribbon mic for loud electric guitar, so it shouldn't matter.

Thank you all SO MUCH!!!! I have no one in real life to ask even the simplest and most amateur questions I have(and I have a lot of dumb questions ha), so I can't tell you how much it means to me that you all took the time to help me here, or how helpful it is for me. jimmys69, rob aylestone, ashcat, DM60, I wish I could buy you all a beer or something. If I get confused about something(which I invariably do) I might return to beg of more of your knowledge, but for now, this has all been tremendously helpful. Thank you all!!!!

Looks like you have been on the board for a while. If you don't come back and ask, no matter how dumb you might think it is, it is your own fault. I would say 99.9% of the folks are here just for that reason.

I will be honest, this whole recording journey has not been as simple as many may think. So don't be embarrassed about not knowing something that is pretty damn complex.

 

[jimmys69]

Looks like you have been on the board for a while. If you don't come back and ask, no matter how dumb you might think it is, it is your own fault. I would say 99.9% of the folks are here just for that reason.

I will be honest, this whole recording journey has not been as simple as many may think. So don't be embarrassed about not knowing something that is pretty damn complex.

WORD!

 

[ashcat_lt]

I for one am happy to help.

I’m still using the US1641 that I bought from [MENTION=112380]jimmys69[/MENTION] when I first joined in my live/tracking rig and I like it so much that I got a used US1800 for my mix room setup. For all practical purposes they are identical, even using the same drivers.

 

[jimmys69]

Wow! Glad to hear the 1641 is still kickin!

 

[Help Help]

Hello again friends! I didn’t have internet for a bit, but I have one last issue to decide regarding the US-1800 before recording a live band, and you guys were so helpful last time I thought I’d try bothering you one more time if that's alright haha. If its annoying, just ignore me!

My setup is:
Drums: 2 overheads, 57 on snare, TBD on kick drum
Guitar1: Ribbon(rented R10 or?) paired with a dynamic(trial and error 7B, 57, e609)
Guitar2: Dynamic mic(same 3)
Bass: Dynamic mic (TBD)
This adds up to using all 8 of the XLR inputs.

On top of this there are two vocals. I’m putting these last because they are the least important in terms of the live tracking, might just be scratch vocals anyway, but sometimes it works out well singing in the moment and I’d like to keep options open if so. Also, just psychologically, we’re so used to singing and playing at once that oddly, it might effect the performance a bit to know the vocals don’t count, if that makes any sense. In the future this would all be good to know regardless.

1) I have this XENYX1002 Behringer unit, it has the two XLR inputs I need. Just to clarify, to connect it with the Tascam US-1800, is it more advisable to run it TRS to 11-14 line inputs or (any specific cable?) to the Digital inputs? It seems like both have been suggested here and elsewhere, though I might well just be getting confused over nothing, my ADD and OCD can make me generate confusion out of thin air at times haha, so please forgive me if that’s what I’m doing right now. It may be that neither is as ideal as straight to the Tascam XLR inputs, but is there a least damaging/most effective method?

Would I run the cables to the Tascam from the Behringer Mic Line-Ins or the Main Outs?

I’ve done something similar to this once before and it worked out well, but I only connected one additional XLR in a fashion that I now realize was rather naive. I have an ART preamp I used last time but there’s only one XLR input, I believe I sent it to the instrument input, whups. There’s no EQ/FX on the ART, its just a straight preamp, which makes me wonder if its better suited somehow for a clean recording. I was thinking I’d just leave the EQ knobs all on 0 on the Behringer. The Behringer board is not the most high end, so if anyone has enough knowledge to object to it specifically, I could always rent something else to attach perhaps(like the ART but with two XLR inputs). I’m not as particular as some people that way, but I still wanna do my best, and you all have a lot more experience/knowledge than me!

2) If I have a pair of condensers for drum overheads, I’ll presumably need phantom power. I would like to use a ribbon mic for electric guitar. If I use the 1-4 button for the phantom, and leave it off for the rest, there should be no risk of damaging the ribbon mic right? I’m a little paranoid with such expensive mics, so this is just a reassurance question that I’m likely answering myself, I’ve never used a ribbon before but I want to try capturing more of the guitar than I’ve gotten with a dynamic shoved against the amp(distorted guitar especially seems to lose something in this method).


I have some recording PTSD from all the times I tried to figure things out myself and messed things up, so this might all seem kinda helpless, every little thing I’m thinking of (whelp, sorry), but its my last inquiry before I get to work. I’ll be quite thankful for any little part answered. Also, suggestions regarding my setup/mics are quite welcome too if anyone has thoughts that way, though as far as I know its mostly fine, so I’m not currently worried about that. Thank you guys so much for any of your time! I appreciate you sharing any knowledge, I hope to have the opportunity to pay it forward someday.

 

[TalismanRich]

For the past several summers, I have recorded a jam session that sounds somewhat like what you have. I've set up in the following way.

Drums - 3 mics, one 57 on kick, and two SDC left and right side BELOW the cymbals and high hat, pointing up at about a 45 degree angle towards the drums. It kept them out of the line of fire, and still gave me a pretty good balance. In your case you could use the overheads and the kick.
Guitars - 3 mics One mic for each amp. I've used CAD TM411s for these most years. They are slightly crisper than an SM57 but seem to work well enough.
Bass - 1 mic. I've tried several, including SP B3s and SM57s. I'm still not completely happy with this one yet. Still looking for the right one.

These 7 channels are run to my Zoom R24. That leaves one channel for vocals.

Vocals - 3 mics, Sennheiser 835s. I run these to a Yamaha MX12/4 mixer, send a stereo feed to a QSC RMX1450 into a pair of JBL speakers. A second mono feed from the 3rd buss is fed to channel 8 of the Zoom. No reverb on the feed to the recording, but there is reverb on the PA feed.

You can see the basic setup in the picture below.

Once I everything set, I let it run, which at 24bit is about 4 hours length for a 16GB SD card. That is then dumped to Reaper for mixing.

Below is one of the tracks from this past summer

One Way Out - PSP

 

[DM60]

Well, you are only going to get two channels out of the Behringer (11-12), but you could go old school and mix the drums through the Behringer, so say overheads with condenser, snare and kick with Dynamic. Get the drum mix correct, then into 11-12. That leaves 1-8 for mics if they need phantom. 9-10 for mics.

So, 11-12 for drums, 1-8 for mics (vocals, what ever) 9-10 for dynamic mics for what you want.

I didn't see a digital out on the Behringer so that is a no go. You would need a preamp with digital outs ART DPSII Preamplifier DPS II B&H Photo Video to use the digitals.

Just have to make sure your drums are mixed well going into the channels. But it would work. Or get this Behringer MX882-V2 8-Channel Splitter / Mixer | Full Compass Systems

It looks like it would work and that would feed 11-14 and forget the Behringer mixer. That gives you 14 total inputs with 14 tracks live. Mix done at home, you just need to track and watch levels.

 

[jimmys69]

It sucks that there are not many preamps produced that still have a digital out. The ART mentioned was one of the perfect choices for the Tascam interface inputs 15 and 16.

But, you could also trigger the kick and lose it's mic by editing in DAW from the closest tom mic for the source. I know it sounds silly, but it can work. Kick drum is the easiest to 'replace'. I have used a Dean Marley stick-on acoustic guitar pickup to test the theory. Worked perfectly with Steven Slate Trigger. But that is likely $150 now. One of the best investments I made when mixing recordings though. Something you should look into.

Maybe there is a ART DSPII out there? That would give you two more live separate input channels/tracks with XLR preamps to the Tascam interface.

Art DPS II Tube/ Digital Preamp System for sale online | eBay

ART Digital Preamp System II digital preamplifier amplifier | eBay

 

[ashcat_lt]

Just to clarify, to connect it with the Tascam US-1800, is it more advisable to run it TRS to 11-14 line inputs

Can actually be any of inputs 9-14. Probably don't push in the Instrument button if you choose to use 9/10.

or (any specific cable?) to the Digital inputs?

I don't see digital outputs on that mixer, unless you've got some special model that does. (???)

Would I run the cables to the Tascam from the Behringer Mic Line-Ins or the Main Outs?

You could take it out of any of the outputs, really. I think only the main outs are going to be TRS balanced if any of them are. You could also try tapping the send portion of the INS jack. That would be the shortest, "purest" signal path, but would needs a special cable and would not be balanced so might be prone to noise.

But honestly - and this is probably going to freak some people out - a reasonably sensitive dynamic mic in front of a relatively loud source may not really even need a preamp at all. I have had perfectly acceptable results just plugging an XLR>TRS cable directly from the microphone into a line input on my 1641. The guitar mics maybe, or the snare would be good candidates for this. A 57 is not particularly sensitive, but I've actually done vocals through a 58 this way on material where a little extra noise wasn't an issue. So anyway, that might be worth a try, especially if you have the cables on hand. The levels may end up a bit low, but you've got all kinds of clean, quiet gain inside the computer.

If I use the 1-4 button for the phantom, and leave it off for the rest, there should be no risk of damaging the ribbon mic right?

Right. You definitely won't have to worry at all as long as the ribbon is on 5-8. The "risk" is negligible with properly functioning gear anyway, especially if you plug in the mic before you turn on the phantom, but for safety's sake I'd do it the way you said there.

 

[DM60]

But honestly - and this is probably going to freak some people out - a reasonably sensitive dynamic mic in front of a relatively loud source may not really even need a preamp at all. I have had perfectly acceptable results just plugging an XLR>TRS cable directly from the microphone into a line input on my 1641. The guitar mics maybe, or the snare would be good candidates for this. A 57 is not particularly sensitive, but I've actually done vocals through a 58 this way on material where a little extra noise wasn't an issue. So anyway, that might be worth a try, especially if you have the cables on hand. The levels may end up a bit low, but you've got all kinds of clean, quiet gain inside the computer.

I tried this a few years ago with the 1800, I thought just like you. So I did a dynamic on a bass and kick into 11-14 channels. I barely go a signal. They really need some amplified source.

 

[ashcat_lt]

[MENTION=136361]DM60[/MENTION] - I’m sorry but “barely go a signal” is a meaningless statement even if we correct the obvious typo. When I’ve done it, I got a good enough S/N ratio to use it and didn’t give a fuck what it looked like on the meter. I know I did it that time with voices and those tracks might not have worked for like front-and-center lead vocals, but I also did it with a full band and I think it was on the guitar and bass amps but it might have been the Leslie (I could look it up, but...) and there wasn’t enough added noise to matter in the mix.

I’m not at all saying this is some super secret new way to get the best recordings ever. I’m saying it can work and is worth a try. I mean, the alternative here is a Behringer mixer FFS. How much worse could it really be?

 

[DM60]

[MENTION=136361]DM60[/MENTION] - I’m sorry but “barely go a signal” is a meaningless statement even if we correct the obvious typo. When I’ve done it, I got a good enough S/N ratio to use it and didn’t give a fuck what it looked like on the meter. I know I did it that time with voices and those tracks might not have worked for like front-and-center lead vocals, but I also did it with a full band and I think it was on the guitar and bass amps but it might have been the Leslie (I could look it up, but...) and there wasn’t enough added noise to matter in the mix.

I’m not at all saying this is some super secret new way to get the best recordings ever. I’m saying it can work and is worth a try. I mean, the alternative here is a Behringer mixer FFS. How much worse could it really be?

OK, for me it was not a full wave even after increasing it. I was just giving my experience and I didn't have any success with those channels11-14 straight in.

 

[Help Help]

Thanks so much for all your responses and suggestions guys, I greatly appreciate you taking the time!

I should maybe specify that this isn't for a show, rather for an attempt at a proper recording in an unfinished basement, though not sure it makes a difference. I was thinking of reserving the 8 XLR mic inputs for the instruments, because the vocals will most likely be scratch vocals. It would just be nice to have the vocals be passable if they turned out well, so whatever I gotta do to match things (inputs and cables with external preamp) as well as possible will suffice.

So the Behringer doesn't have digital outs, I'm just wondering, if I did find a preamp with digital outs, is that preferable to going line-in? Also, is it better to find a device with specific preamps like the ones some of you have suggested, or can the preamps on a mixer do the same thing? I might go see what there is to rent at a local music store, perhaps something with dedicated preamps that have digital outs like the ART preamp jimmy suggested. Or maybe just find another single XLR ART preamp to add to the one I have.

A bit off topic, but my vague understanding of audio latency is the delay in the digital signal chain that can cause problems when doing overdubs. However, if everything is being live tracked at once, is there any concern that way? Can't seem to find a clear answer just googling it somehow. My computer lags at times with occasional audio dropouts sometimes ruining takes, so if it makes no difference in a live band scenario I was thinking about changing the buffer setting in Cubase, though I've never done that before so not sure how much it matters as to how much I increase it. Technically my current laptop should be plenty powerful enough, I never had this problem with much "inferior" laptops from 10 years ago(I've gone over and over the recommended protocol for this problem, it seems its something about Windows 10 doing latency tests, though I'm not certain).

Thanks again guys! I'll keep considering everything you've said here.