My drums sound boring

G

gasal69

New member
I am guitar player and I manage to play and record all instruments by myself.
Everything but drums. It is tricky instrument no matter many people think how it is so easy to play.
Maybe it is easy to kick the drums but I think the drums should be played not kicked.

That’s why I use drum machine Boss DR-770 and try not to make too complicated stuff.

I’m not satisfied with the final result. I don’t know how to use effects for drum-tracks.
Boss DR-770 sounds nice but in my final mixes drums seem to be a little dry and boring.
Every time I tried to put some reverb they become unreal, maybe too wet, too electric, too techno.
I’m sure you guys know what I mean.

My stuff is typical rock and rock ballads. I would like my drums to sound just like that.

Any tips?
By the way, I use Adobe Audition (Cool Edit Pro).
 
If you have to go with a drum machine there are ways to get it to sound more real. The first thing I do is to use sounds or kits that are samples of acoustic drums and not electronic sounding. Then I try to take my time programming. You have to mix it up a little when it comes to patterns. For example, your verse pattern may be a simple four bar thing that will get boring but if you copy the basic pattern a few times and throw some accents or open hi hat things in the copy patterns it will spice it up. You can keep the basic pattern but use the alternate patterns for interest.
Try to think about what a real drummer would play and don't play anything that is humanly impossible for a drummer to play.
One trick I like to do is with my hi hats. If the hats are playing 8th notes I set the pad volume to the highest setting and play the quarter notes on 1,2,3,and 4 and then go back at a medium volume and record the in between hits. It gives it a more natural feel.
 
As a fellow guitar player/home recordist, I have been similarly frustrated with programming realistic drum parts. I'm borrowing a friend's Boss DR-660 and the sounds are even more dated/artificial sounding than the 770. You can do the sequencing in the 770, but it's difficult to change velocity settings and tempo shifts - both necessities for realism. I abandoned this strategy and started doing the drum sequencing in Cubase. I still use the 660 as a MIDI controller to program the beats, but the sequencer allows me to assign unique velocity numbers to each hit and adjust the tempo a few ticks here and there for more of a live feel. When the MIDI drum file is sounding good, I send the MIDI out from my computer to the MIDI in of the DR-660. I use the individual outputs of the DR-660 to create seperate audio tracks of each drum sound:

Track 1: kick
Track 2: snare
Track 3: HH
Track 4: Ride
Track 5: maybe a stereo track with toms and crashes

This way I can add a little reverb and EQ the drums individually. It's extremely time consuming, but it pays off big time.
 
I think everyone doing all the intruments has a drum problem, unless they're a drummer, but even then, recording could be a challenge. I used to use a Roland R8, and in the past, it was ok to have those huge sounds, but now dry is in,wet it out.

Then one day I tried recording my real drums and I just couldn't go back, even tho I'm not so great at playing them, recording quality got better tho. So now I'm trying to figure out how to edit the track to fix it up. Not easy either, but it's getting me into computer editing. If you hear any of my sample tracks, they are not edited. I really love playing drums and maybe someday I'll get better, but I'll look into having someone play them for me also.
 
junplugged said:
I think everyone doing all the intruments has a drum problem, unless they're a drummer, but even then, recording could be a challenge. I used to use a Roland R8, and in the past, it was ok to have those huge sounds, but now dry is in,wet it out.

Then one day I tried recording my real drums and I just couldn't go back, even tho I'm not so great at playing them, recording quality got better tho. So now I'm trying to figure out how to edit the track to fix it up. Not easy either, but it's getting me into computer editing. If you hear any of my sample tracks, they are not edited. I really love playing drums and maybe someday I'll get better, but I'll look into having someone play them for me also.
Click to expand...

I got some drums also. And you are right, there is no going back.
 
Thanks guys!

Patterns, timing, 7/8, 4/4, beats … interesting things but
can someone tell me something about after recording.

What I have in my mind is how to get better sound.
Let’s see everything is recorded and nice. How to make drums track more real, warmer and rocky?

I tried with some reverb. Sometimes it pays but I am not sure that I use the right technique.
 
These days when I use a drum machine I put each drum on it's own track. That way when you are mixing you have control over each drum instead of being stuck with a stereo drum track.
I have heard of guys running their drum machine through speakers and putting a mic in the room or close micing the cab to give it more of a live sound. I would think it could help to get rid of the sterile drum sound. I haven't tried this method but it sounds like it might be worth a try.
 
I do what DCL does. I have a simple sequencing program (Magix Studio Deluxe) that lets me 'tweak' the individual beats easily...much more so than directly ON the drum machine. I have a DR-670, but I actually use the drum sounds from a Roland SC-55, and like them much better. Putting each drum instrument on a separate track helps with both eq'ing, reverb and volume etc. I ALWAYS do this AT LEAST with the kick drum. Here is a link to a song I did on a BR1600 with the Roland SC-55 for drum sounds. Patterns were created off the DR-670, played into a sequencer, tweaked there, then played BACK thru the Roland SC-55. All the other instruments and lead/backup vocals were done by me.

My guess is that you can NEVER achieve the same quality of sound using MIDI sound samples as you could with a good drummer playing good drums!

Hope this helps,
steve


 
Here is a link to a song I did on a BR1600 with the Roland SC-55 for drum sounds. Patterns were created off the DR-670, played into a sequencer, tweaked there, then played BACK thru the Roland SC-55. All the other instruments and lead/backup vocals were done by me.

My guess is that you can NEVER achieve the same quality of sound using MIDI sound samples as you could with a good drummer playing good drums!

Hope this helps,
steve


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It was nice, steve!
I'll listen to "the music" again tomorrow on real speakers.

I agree with you about making midis to sound real.
I never expect that.
 
Hmmmmmmmmmm..............................

Buy a real drummer?!? Or try running your drum machine through a PA of some sort and record the room, sometimes the results can be cool. But yeah, a real drummer is the only way. ;)
 
Yes, I do exactly what sp_clark did in his example:

-Create some patterns in the DR-660
-Play it into Cubase
-Tweak in Cubase (velocity and timing shifts)
-Recently, I've been playing the parts back through Battery. Battery is a simple to use VSTi drum machine that allows you to load up your own samples. I've been using acoustic drum samples that sound better than any drum machine that I've tried.
-Take individual outs from Battery to create audio drum tracks.
-Season with EQ, compression and a bit of verb (especially the snare)

I must point out that my drum parts don't have quite the lively feel and complexity that sp_clark demonstrates in his example. That's some serious sequencing dude!
 
Thanks DC. It IS very tedious. I don't actually even build the patterns on the drum machine. I either use a midi keyboard controller, or the DR drum pads to play the midi data INTO the sequencer.....So the patterns are really constructed THERE, and NOT on the drum machine. Then I put the patterns into the proper measures in the sequencer, and tweak away. I control the tempo changes etc from the BR1600. This REALLY allows you to do what someone else suggested earliler, and add little nuances wherever you choose to mix it up a little. Plus, if you get something wrong, it's just a mouse click n drag away from fixin! Quantization is MUCH more granular as well.

steve
 
A lot of good tips out there...

I think you should also try some other things: do not quantize every single drum track. Bass drum and hihat quantized, the rest not. Using multiple patterns may also help alot.

I own a XL-7 and added some additional tricks, but I dunno whether they are possible on the DR-770...

I used two layers of different acoustic drum, with one layer having a slight random detune and volume change on it. Even though completely quantized and using one pattern, it made the drums a lot more lively...

aXel
 
This is random, but is Groove Agent by steinberg worthy of anything for realistic sounding drums? I agree with the concept that there is no way to emulate a real drummer, but someday we can come close :0)
 
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