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Thread: Opinions on this image, please.

  1. #11
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    I'm not quite sure why you want it? We would all have different box titles, and perhaps things in different orders, so the only person who would need a flow chart would be you, and to produce the flow chart, you already have it in your head.

    I don't think I have personally in all my years recording ever had a need of one. The exception was when I spent 12 years as a teacher, and the exam requirements needed people to produce one. In real life, I don't see the point. It's also silly to make definitive rules - as in lopping everything over 16.5KHz off?

    What's it for?

  2. #12
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    "I don't think I have personally in all my years recording ever had a need of one."

    That's impressive Rob, that from your first efforts you had a natural ability to understand track recording and processing. That you had an instinctive knowledge of the subtleties that go into making a track achieve that elusive balance of dynamic yet unobtrusive. That mixing and mastering came naturally to you. I'm not so endowed, unfortunately.

    And as I commented, in reading a post from another "noob" who was requesting the just most basic advice, more advanced members couldn't even agree on a number of things that, to an inexperienced guy like me, would seem settled but are apparently still open to debate.

    Having a template would, obviously, not be the last word for anyone, but a helluva lot better than starting from scratch with a handful of tools but no knowledge of how to use them.

    I think of building an engine. I have a block and the associated reciprocating and rotating assembly. And on a stand, I have a finished engine. I'm told to put together the parts so that I have duplicated the engine on the stand. I could certainly create a chart that would outline the steps to achieve this. However, some guys would say, "use a bead hone" to finish the bore while another would say, "use a stone-type hone for the bore." One might say, "before dropping in the crank, chamfer the oil holes" while another would say, "leave it as ground." None of these instruction would negate the fact that the bore needing honing or that the crank needed to be installed. But knowing the steps would allow me to gain the knowledge necessary to separate the required steps from the personal preference of how to perform those steps. A poor analogy perhaps.

  3. #13
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    I get it-like someone handing you the key to a toolbox, giving you a stack of parts, and a working engine than saying "Take these parts and make that engine" and no more. Most would find that not only daunting but also frustrating, discouraging and possibly hopeless. So let me just say right off -I want to encourage you to try anything and if it helps , USE it. I am a firm believer that putting something on paper as it were , can help you organize your thoughts, workflow, whatever. Also I don't think anyone meant to bust on your ideas, we're just people who are passionate about something which makes us opinionated. So let me just expand a bit on Rob's points: Each of the boxes in this map, as well as the map are processes,"tools" used in recording, creating, mixing, mastering audio. In order to use these tools(including most vehemently , the chart itself), as would be engineers we must know A: What is this? B:Why is it used/needed? C: How is it used/needed? The chart ostensibly only shows "when". What many of us are arguing is the "when", because it should flow naturally from the why. So that if we understand why we are using something it will point towards the when to use it. IMHO we are all constantly learning and when doing any sort of creative endeavor there is an infinite amount of information, but also something very special- while building a mix or an engine, skipping steps, omitting parts, adding unknown parts can not only cause a disaster(and a learning experience) but also we might come up with something great. So learn what your tools are, why they are used, how they are used and when they are used then throw out all those rules and try everything you can think of cuz the more you do this stuff, the better you get. And have fun. Music should be a joy.
    Win 7 Ult Dell i7 4core 6700ghz 32 GB, 1,2x2, 4 Tb Barracuda HD's running Pro tools 2019 through Allen&Heath Qu-32

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  5. #14
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    Not bad! (Why is this in Reaper instead of Mastering?)

    I do use reverb in my "pseudo-mastering" sometimes. Well, when I'm doing open mics and generating freebie quick mixes, pretty much all the time because I only usually have vocal + guitar tracks to mix, and the reverb I use on those is slightly different, with a different pre-delay, i.e., it's more of a track enhancement than a mix glue/finish thing. The mix reverb is generally to emphasize the live room ambience, which I'm actually not capturing during recording.

    But, we all tend to create our own workflows, so having a template that captures your chart is probably as good a place to start as any. Better than randomly throwing a bunch of stuff in the pot, stirring, and wondering why sometimes it tastes good and sometimes it's horrible (to toss in another metaphor).
    "... I know in the mornin' that it's gonna be good
    when I stick out my elbows and they don't bump wood." - Bill Kirchen

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  7. #15
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    "Not bad! (Why is this in Reaper instead of Mastering?)" Probably because I don't consider myself sufficiently informed to ask any questions in Mastering!! LOL


    ".....and when doing any sort of creative endeavor there is an infinite amount of information" Man, ain't it the truth!!

    "But, we all tend to create our own workflows, so having a template that captures your chart is probably as good a place to start as any. Better than randomly throwing a bunch of stuff in the pot, stirring, and wondering why sometimes it tastes good and sometimes it's horrible (to toss in another metaphor)." Ain't it the truth, 2X!!

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    The thing about charts like that, as pointed out already, they sometimes may have things that do not apply to a particular mix. so if you use it - because its on the chart - you may be hurting the mix rather than improving it.
    So ... listen to the mix ... what does it need ... stereo widening? Boost highs? Volume increase? Only do what you think it needs, experiment, listen again (and watch out for ear fatigue).
    Mike B My new album on CD Baby: Fact and Fiction
    My Bandcamp site: http://mikebirchmusic.bandcamp.com

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    I wonder: Are the best engineers, musicians?

  10. #18
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    Checklists are useful.

    They are particularly useful to newcomers who may not even realise there is a step to go through before calling something finished.

    In time, the newcomer becomes an oldcomer, and the oldcomer has the rituals embedded in his or her brain, and the checklist becomes superfluous. But even, they can be handy reminders.

    The best engineers are probably those who have two sets of skills: technical and musical. An engineer needs to know how music works. In particular, they need to know how music works for the genre they are dealing with.

  11. #19
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    You, sir, never fail to add a useful comment to a discussion. If you know the location of a checklist that you find useful for four-on-the-floor rock music, on this site or elsewhere, drop me a link.

  12. #20
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    Part of the danger of something like this would be noobs assuming that this is a definitive list of things that must be one, in this order, for all genres and all projects.

    Too many times, people with little experience will latch on to "rules" and tricks to help make sense of the whole thing, without realizing that nothing works all the time, in all situations.

    It would be much better to have a flow chart that goes something like:

    Listen to what you have-->envision what you want it to be---> do they match?---> ifyes, you are done, if no, use whatever equipment and technique necessary to bring what you have closer to what you want. Lather, rinse, repeat.
    Jay Walsh
    Farview Recording. I am also the forum spokesmodel for Terasyne Amplification

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