Mastering on reaper

mcmac74

Active member
After a rather steep learning curve my first song recorded in reaper is almost done...all the parts are recorded so just need to get the mix sorted. I've read about automation for volume on individual tracks with envelopes which seems pretty straight forward although I'm yet to have a go. My questions are hopefully straightforward and concern basic levels I should be hitting in the master track. All my individual tracks were recorded with peaks of around -18db.

So....when I'm playing back the track, where should the master slider be positioned whilst I tweak the individual tracks? When that is established, what level should I be looking at for the master peaking? If I apply a couple of effects to the master mix (probably just some eq and compression ), should this be after i have got the levels right or should it be applied to the master whilst I'm getting the mix right from individual tracks?

Hope that's all clear!

Regards
Mark
 
All my individual tracks were recorded with peaks of around -18db.

It's not a major issue, but the usual target is to the the average levels, the meat of the signal, around -18dBFS and let the peaks land where they may.

It's rare that you need to move the master fader off 0dB. As for peaks, just don't go over 0dB.

I would get the mix sorted for the most part before adding anything to the master bus. If you're going to master it as a separate step then perhaps you'll have nothing on the master bus in the mix project. If you're going to master it in the mix project then get the mix basically done before doing anything that qualifies as mastering, with the understanding that you might go back and tweak either mix or mastering settings after checking the mix on other playback systems.

Some people mix into master bus compression from the start. That's a perfectly legitimate technique, but I don't like it in a DAW because I would want the compressor visible the whole time as in an analog system with rack gear.
 
I would get the mix sorted for the most part before adding anything to the master bus. If you're going to master it as a separate step then perhaps you'll have nothing on the master bus in the mix project. If you're going to master it in the mix project then get the mix basically done before doing anything that qualifies as mastering said:
Thanks...just so I'm clear

1. Get my mix right.
2. Add master effects making sure peaks don't hit over 0db
3. Render to wav
4. Check playback on other equipment
5. Tweak mix / and / or master effects

Is that essentially considered mastering as far as reaper goes?
 
I would do it somewhat differently, though it amounts to pretty much the same thing in the end.

1 Get my mix right
2 Render to WAV
3 Load WAV into a new session of Reaper
4 Apply a range of mastering effects
5 Re-render.

I would do it this way because I often have to master a set of tracks and get them cohesive with each other. That means having them all mixed down first so that I can play them against each other.
 
I would do it somewhat differently, though it amounts to pretty much the same thing in the end.

1 Get my mix right
2 Render to WAV
3 Load WAV into a new session of Reaper
4 Apply a range of mastering effects
5 Re-render.

I would do it this way because I often have to master a set of tracks and get them cohesive with each other. That means having them all mixed down first so that I can play them against each other.

I like the sound of working it that way...by new session I take it you mean opening up a new project separate from the source of the wav? Why couldn't you just load the wav on a new track, mute all the original source tracks and then apply effects etc to the master?

Mark
 
I think it would be cleaner to just load the wav file. There's no reason to have Reaper load all the overhead that comes with a multitrack session just to master the stereo file. Plus there's less chance that you do something inadvertent, like deleting a track by mistake or tweaking the wrong slider. Plus if you have to go back and rework something in the mix, your changes on the stereo track would apply to the mix tracks as well, so you may have mucked up the works.
 
I would do it somewhat differently, though it amounts to pretty much the same thing in the end.

1 Get my mix right
2 Render to WAV
3 Load WAV into a new session of Reaper
4 Apply a range of mastering effects
5 Re-render.

I would do it this way because I often have to master a set of tracks and get them cohesive with each other. That means having them all mixed down first so that I can play them against each other.

I think it would be cleaner to just load the wav file. There's no reason to have Reaper load all the overhead that comes with a multitrack session just to master the stereo file. Plus there's less chance that you do something inadvertent, like deleting a track by mistake or tweaking the wrong slider. Plus if you have to go back and rework something in the mix, your changes on the stereo track would apply to the mix tracks as well, so you may have mucked up the works.

Makes sense ?
 
I would do it somewhat differently, though it amounts to pretty much the same thing in the end.

1 Get my mix right
2 Render to WAV
3 Load WAV into a new session of Reaper
4 Apply a range of mastering effects
5 Re-render.

I would do it this way because I often have to master a set of tracks and get them cohesive with each other. That means having them all mixed down first so that I can play them against each other.

That's what I do, keeping the mix render in 24 bit, and only rendering the master stereo mix to 16 bit.
 
Anytime you render an audio file that is not a final for-distribution file - if you intend to do any processing to it all before you’re actually done - you should render to a floating point format in order to preserve as very much dynamic range as possible. You don’t have to worry about absolute levels at all this way. They fall where they may, you do whatever you need to do after to get them where you want them without having to worry about noise or quantization or distortion that might be exacerbated in later steps. Once you’re really done and happy and never going to change another thing, render your final distribution files to whatever bit depth you want using your preferred dither settings. Then don’t change process that file at all ever.
 
I think it would be cleaner to just load the wav file. There's no reason to have Reaper load all the overhead that comes with a multitrack session just to master the stereo file. Plus there's less chance that you do something inadvertent, like deleting a track by mistake or tweaking the wrong slider. Plus if you have to go back and rework something in the mix, your changes on the stereo track would apply to the mix tracks as well, so you may have mucked up the works.

And another reason is that you can set up a Reaper template just for mastering, with your pet plugins in place, and call it up whenever you need to.
 
Morning

I have initially rendered the song to Mp3 so I could check the mix on other systems and how it compared to previous recordings (also Mp3 format for comparison). I was surprised to find it was way quieter than previous recordings on my old Korg D1200 standalone. I've checked levels on the song and the master level is generally peaking around 0db with the master fader set to 0db. As previously mentioned the original track recordings were all done with average levels of -18 db. I'm a bit miffed as to why the level is so low / poor.

Any pointers appreciated

Mark
 
I've noticed that the db levels on the master are split into 3...what I assume is stereo L/R but also a central db metre that doesn't seem to correlate with those either side...I assume I should be peaking no higher that the green markers on the L/R metres?

Mark
 
Morning

I have initially rendered the song to Mp3 so I could check the mix on other systems and how it compared to previous recordings (also Mp3 format for comparison). I was surprised to find it was way quieter than previous recordings on my old Korg D1200 standalone. I've checked levels on the song and the master level is generally peaking around 0db with the master fader set to 0db. As previously mentioned the original track recordings were all done with average levels of -18 db. I'm a bit miffed as to why the level is so low / poor.

Any pointers appreciated

Mark

If you are peaking at 0 but still find it quiet, you probably need a fair amount of compression/limiting to bring up the lower volume sections. I find its better to get this done at the mixing stage (taming loud peaks) so that the master does not get overly compressed/limited.
 
I've noticed that the db levels on the master are split into 3...what I assume is stereo L/R but also a central db metre that doesn't seem to correlate with those either side...I assume I should be peaking no higher that the green markers on the L/R metres?

Mark
I think this is what you are referencing.... On mine, the outer bars are RMS, the inner bars are track(s) Peak. I reset my display offset to align -18 to 0. I think default was -14 to 0.
NewOffset.jpg
 
I've noticed that the db levels on the master are split into 3...what I assume is stereo L/R but also a central db metre that doesn't seem to correlate with those either side...I assume I should be peaking no higher that the green markers on the L/R metres?

Mark

I'll echo what [MENTION=39487]mjbphotos[/MENTION] said. If you want it louder then compress elements in the mix that have a lot of dynamics.

You could start by putting a limiter on the mix bus to give you some idea of how far you have to go. If it's just a few dB that might be all you need. More than that may require compressing individual tracks or subgroups.
 
If you are peaking at 0 but still find it quiet, you probably need a fair amount of compression/limiting to bring up the lower volume sections. I find its better to get this done at the mixing stage (taming loud peaks) so that the master does not get overly compressed/limited.

I'll echo what [MENTION=39487]mjbphotos[/MENTION] said. If you want it louder then compress elements in the mix that have a lot of dynamics.

You could start by putting a limiter on the mix bus to give you some idea of how far you have to go. If it's just a few dB that might be all you need. More than that may require compressing individual tracks or subgroups.

I suspect you're right. When I've recorded in the past I've always used a joe Meek preamp and used the recommended settings for attack / release. Moving over to recording on reaper and using VST effects I'm kinda feeling in the dark. I've added the JS compressor to all acoustic guitar / bass and vocal tracks from the start although I don't really know what setting I should use so left alone. If anyone has any recommendations for a good free compression / limiting VST that would be great. I'm no engineer so something with presets would be great....

How do people rate the JS stuff for compression/ limiting?

On this subject, does anyone still use a physical preamp prior to the audio interface or do you just use plug ins?

Mark
 
I think this is what you are referencing.... On mine, the outer bars are RMS, the inner bars are track(s) Peak. I reset my display offset to align -18 to 0. I think default was -14 to 0.
View attachment 105353

Ok...I may get round to understanding and making the display bespoke for me...right now I just need to be sure which metre is an accurate gauge to make sure I'm not gonna be making the mix clip / distort etc

Thanks
 
If anyone has any recommendations for a good free compression / limiting VST that would be great. I'm no engineer so something with presets would be great....

How do people rate the JS stuff for compression/ limiting?

On this subject, does anyone still use a physical preamp prior to the audio interface or do you just use plug ins?

I don't use Reaper, but I do use the Cockos plugin pack that includes the ReaEQ, ReaComp etc. Those are my default channel plugins. Even when I was experimenting with Reaper I didn't use the JS stuff much.

The system I usually use is a medium format mixer connected to a line level interface, so technically I am using a preamp ahead of the interface because it's required. There's also a patch bay and rack of hardware compressors. Most of the time I'm working on familiar performers so it's pretty safe to commit to a bit of processing on the way into the DAW. If I had to I could easily depend entirely on plugins.
 
If anyone has any recommendations for a good free compression / limiting VST that would be great. I'm no engineer so something with presets would be great...
Mark
Mark,
I've had good luck with the ReaComp and the Master Limiter that are built-ins. However, initially, it took me learning what the compressor does and how it works, to get any good out of it. Believe me when I say that I have butchered a lot of audio tracks, during my learning phase. CTRL + Z and "remove" effect is your friend. Presets did not get it done for me, because I found that proper use is content-specific, requiring ears.


Ok...I may get round to understanding and making the display bespoke for me...right now I just need to be sure which metre is an accurate gauge to make sure I'm not gonna be making the mix clip / distort etc
Thanks
Best advice as [MENTION=45599]gecko zzed[/MENTION] said: stay out of the red.
Dale
 
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