Delay & Compression Question

D

DairyAir

New member
Hello,

I could sure use some help with the following 2 questions.

Question1

While listening to a mono Acoustic guitar track I have recorded
I panned it hard left & added a small 60ms delay (real time)panned right. The delayed sound is very quiet & weak.
But when I listen to a stereo acoustic guitar track and repeat the
procedure as I just mentioned, it sounds full & strong.
What am I doing wrong with the mono track? Is there a special
setting for mono effects?

Question2

I have attached a wave form photo of my acoustic guitar track
& wish to add some 4:1 compression. Where should I set
the threshold level so the track doesn't sound completely squashed? Also, what is considered ideal for an attack & release setting.

All suggestions will be appreciated.

Thank you

D.A.
 

Attachments

  • acoustic guitar waveform.jpg
    acoustic guitar waveform.jpg
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About question 2: that's a nice-looking track, and I don't think you have to compress is much, if any at all. If you insist on compressing it, use a mild ratio like 2:1, and start with a threshold somewhere around -6 dB or -7 dB - just enough to nick off those highest peaks without touching the rest of the file.
 
Thanks for your reply Dobro & nice to meet ya!

My Guitar track seemed to come out sounding nice (after 50 takes), it's the first time I have used my ART - Pre with an Apex 420 Condensor mic. Regarding the compression, that sounds good Dobro, I'll give that a shot for sure. As far as question 1 goes, I hope I explained it well enough. I'm still working on a solution.


Thanks again

DairyAir
 
You could...

... make a unique copy of the track (for the delay) and pan the original left with no effect and then delay the copy at 100%wet and pan right.

Which delay are you using and how are you routing the effect???

I just tried this with the built in CEP (stereo) delay on a stereo track and if you pan the track left and try to only out put from the right of the effect mixer there is no delay output, which makes sense.

As for question 2....take a look at the Rec Techniques forum from the past week or so. There are some good discussions about compression.

What do you hope to accomplish by compressing the track????

If you just want to thicken it up and color it a little, than try a really low ratio (like 1.2:1 or 1.5:1) and set the threshhold quite low (like -12 to -24) and then play with the attack and release settings ...and threshold....it will color the sound in interesting ways and different ways.

I learned that from the recent "cool compression trick" thread in the Recording Techniques forum and have been playing with that. It really lets you hear the sound of a particular compressor in subtle ways and lets you change the tone using the attack and release....hell you can actually BRIGHTEN a track with a compressor.....something I didn't think you could do.

DONT LOOK AT THE WAV when making the adjustments.
I try and get the effect box as big as possible to block the wav file so I can adjust in real time and JUST LISTEN to the sound.

Many others have said it and I believe it.....you hear differently when your looking at sound on a screen than when your just listening.

Again though, why do you want to compress it???
What will this track be in the context of the mix???
Is it a rythm track or lead.....or both......

you may want to compress the delay differently than the original.

I mean there is no ideal settings because it all depends on the specific objectives you hope to achieve by applying the process.

Play around until it sounds right within the context that you need it to sound right.

-mike
 
Thanks for your reply formerlyfzfile,


To answer your question:

Why do I want to compress it?
I want to compress it because everybody else is? (Just kiddin')
When I originally recorded it, I used an Artmp which is a "soft knee" pre/comp, via a mixer, but I feel as if it needs a bit of extra "crispiness" added to the track.

My song has:

Drums
Bass
Acoustic (panned left)
Elec Guitar (panned right)
Vocals
Lead guitar

There's not a whole lot of instruments in this song, so I feel a
need more presence with the acoustic. Not alot, but more than
I have now.


What will this track be in the mix?
Just a rhythm guitar track, a strumming-pick sound for
fullness working in tandem with the electric.


Your solution for my delay/panning problem sounds great! I understand how this would work. Would it not hurt to record the
acoustic as a stereo track, then pan & add the delay? I'm trying
to make comparisons between the mono & stereo once panned over, and I don't really hear a difference.What do you think?

I especially like your idea about using a really low ratio with
a low threshold as compared to using a high ratio with a higher
threshold! I will experiment with this for sure.

My next hurdle is the vocals! I seem to be having a tough transition from analog to computer when it comes to this. I'm thinking that I'll have to sing the lead twice & maybe compress the second take big time for fullness and mix the two together.

Has anyone here in this group downloaded sessions from each other via an ftp site for evaluation purposes?
I would be willing to participate anytime!

One last thought,

I was adding effects to my mix the other day and as an example
I added a bit of chorus, reverb & delay to the acoustic guitar track and had hell of a time with deciding between parallel or series
in the track mixer. I went with an 80% dry, 20% chorus, 20% reverb & 20% delay. I did not get the sound I was looking for and bounced between the two.. Is there an order in which these effects should be cued? Or is it better to add one reverb to the entire mix using a common buss and reserving the delay & chorus for individual tracks?



Thanks again, take care.


D.A.
 
Hey Dairy.

For more presence on the track, you may want to also try a limiter after some slight compression. ....where you are just tapping the red on the meters. This will allow you to color and tighten the track with the compressor and then push the over all track level up for presence.

If you have Sound Forge and heve the Wave Hammer, that works great on individual tracks for that.

Also ...you might try doing the delay thing with both the acoustic track and the electric rythm track, only in opposites.
In other words, take the acoustic and pan right but send the delay left. Then pan the electric left but send the delay right.

This will give a really wide full sound.

As for the the order of effects.....I personally dont like to use delay and reverb on the same track. I'll use one or the other.
I find it hard to get a good sound with both......gets to washy most of the time for my taste.

Sometimes though, I'll add a little verb for ambiance (real light) and then send that to a delay for fattening.

Chorus I usually put up in front of the chain.

...but I'm certainly no expert. Thats just what I've found to work for me.

-mike
 
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