backups

dobro

dobro

Well-known member
Look, help me think this through. I'm wondering about backups.

I make backups, either to CDRW or CDR, of everything I do. I backup the tracks I record, and I backup the mixdowns I do of mixes. But it doesn't make much sense to me to back up the mixes themselves.

Why I back up the mixdowns: duh, cuz I want that final product to be backed up.

Why I back up the original recorded tracks: in case I want to go back some day and re-do the mix.

Why I don't back up the mixes themselves: first, if I do destructive edits in
Edit View, then the mixes contain no information I can use later except for levels and panning - the mixes don't contain more important stuff like EQ and reverb settings. Second, if it's just the information about what EQ and reverb I used, I can backup just the file in Cool or my plugins that contains inormation about settings I added and saved as I went along, and forget about backing up the whole session with all the tracks.

No? How do you do it?
 
I archive the original material, the session file (hardly any space used) and the mixdown, and the cue sheet I use for CD burning. I need the mixdown if any more CDs are ordered (otherwise I'd have to do another mixdown). Archiving to DVD is fairly straightforward and economical these days, and I use Wavpack to save space. Downside of my method is that I archive all elements on one medium, whereas I really should have the session file and original material in one place and the mixdown in another. But apart from NR I don't do anything destructive to the original material.
 
What does the session file contain exactly? All of the settings for the session, of course. All of the settings in Multitrack, right? But does it also contain settings in Edit View which I save? No, right? So if I do destructive edits in Edit View, then I have to backup all those saved settings independently, right? Which is the cool.ini file, right?
 
Saving mixdowns

Well, Dobro...
Hmmmm...I complete the mixdown (Edit/Mixdown to File/All Waves, if I remember), then apply all the processing to the result: trimming the ends, setting the overall level, compression as needed, fades, etc, and convert the whole result to 16bit and then save in a folder with other mixdowns from the same project. I guess that means I'm saving the destructive edits, but that's the point: those are the decisions I made about that mix. If I am dissatisfied at some future point, I go back to the original multitracks and start over.

What am I not doing that you are trying to do?
 
lpdeluxe said:
Well, Dobro...
Hmmmm...I complete the mixdown (Edit/Mixdown to File/All Waves, if I remember), then apply all the processing to the result: trimming the ends, setting the overall level, compression as needed, fades, etc, and convert the whole result to 16bit and then save in a folder with other mixdowns from the same project. I guess that means I'm saving the destructive edits, but that's the point: those are the decisions I made about that mix. If I am dissatisfied at some future point, I go back to the original multitracks and start over.

What am I not doing that you are trying to do?
Click to expand...
This is what I do as well. However, with the new album I'm recording I've decided to save complete dry sessions to DVD. I'm saving a full session, with unedited vocals as a "dry" session. No destructive edits, nor any processing as in effects etc. With 4.7 gigs per DVD-R I'm able to save about 15 sessions per disc at the 32 bit-float on PCM wav data. It allows me to go back at any time and re-mix the entire session if I so choose.
 
"What am I not doing that you are trying to do?"

What a wonderfully convoluted question! I'm just thinking out loud about the best way to back stuff up so that everything's covered in case later on I want to re-mix something. What to save aside from the untouched recorded tracks and the final mixdown, in other words. It's the multitrack mix I'm wondering about. Instead of re-doing a mix from the ground up, it might be useful to go into the mix the way I did it last to see what I was doing exactly. But I can only do that if all the settings - EQ, reverb, and all the stuff in Multitrack - is available. But it's really hard to do that, right? If I'm right, I have to save the session file PLUS the cool.ini file PLUS any plugin files that have information about the settings I used. Which is a lot of damn work to archive in a useful way. I think it might make more sense just to save the raw tracks. If I need to re-do the mix, then re-do the mix and stop looking for shortcuts, right? :D
 
C of P: I think the DVD idea is way more intelligent than my old-fashioned CDR and CDRW approach. DVD burners handle CD burning as well, right?
 
dobro said:
C of P: I think the DVD idea is way more intelligent than my old-fashioned CDR and CDRW approach. DVD burners handle CD burning as well, right?
Click to expand...
Yes. I picked up a Tascam 16x DVD burner for under $200. Burns CD-R at 48x as well.

At 4.7 gb per disc, it's hard to go wrong. You can save an entire albums worth of sessions on one disc for archival purposes, and not have to worry about Hard drive space.
 
I understand what you're saying, now, Mr Dobro. You had me a little confused. We probably work differently: I do mostly acoustic (including a couple of flautists, lately) where it's very important to the musician that the result not sound processed, so I don't often touch the EQ unless it's to fix a problem. I have a live-sounding room and to my taste it sounds much better without artifical reverb added. So all in all, you may process your mixes more than I do, which means you have a lot more steps to save. If I have the multitrack original with the volume & pan envelopes activated & where I want them for the final mix, there's not much more I need. And, as above, if I change my mind I can easily tweak the envelopes.

So what's the answer? Maybe saving "intermediate mixes?" In other words, mixes with various combinations of effects...

...I think I see the problem.
 
As far as I am concerned, a session file contains everything that is necessary for the session apart from the audio and any vst effect dll's- you could put it on a CD with the relevant wave files (and any vsts), take it somewhere else, and carry on working. That's why you don't see preset labels when you load a session - it doesn't care what the preset was called, it stores the exact settings of all the parameters that the preset contained.

Do a test - create a preset on some effect or other called (say) "rubbish", and have all the parameter faders over to the left - or set up in some other unlikely but obvious way. Include that preset in a session file FX rack. Save and exit. Reopen, delete the "rubbish" preset, load the session, and see if the rack contains the parameters that were in the original "rubbish" preset.

If however you are using edit view to apply presets, yes, you do need to preserve the presets (cool.ini or audition.ini) if you wanted to reproduce what you originally did. The size of the ini file compared to the wave files will not be much of an issue.

But don't take my advice as gospel till you have done some simple tests to prove that it's true!
 
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