Why so many "Visitors" and so few "Members"?

gecko zzed

Grumpy Mod
This is a thread about member retention. And off topic forums are by their very nature not about recording. And there is still the same vitriol as ever but if I had to guess it would align with the mod team's vitriol now. But you know that. Also, there's WAY less members to converse with now. And that's true in the off topic and on topic forums. But you know that, too.
Sure . . . it is a thread about member retention. And there are a variety of reasons why retantion chabbges. Some wer ementioned. I'm not sure about the non-sequiteur about off topic forums being off topic forums. If one measures the level of vitriol by the number of reports, HR would currently be a virtual Shangri La compared top, say, a decade ago. And sure, there are fewer members to converse with now.
 
However, those who enjoy the adrenalin rush of vigorous pff-topic debates are probably better going to sites dedicated to that, rather than one focused on recording.

This is a thread about member retention. And off topic forums are by their very nature not about recording. And there is still the same vitriol as ever but if I had to guess it would align with the mod team's vitriol now. But you know that. Also, there's WAY less members to converse with now. And that's true in the off topic and on topic forums. But you know that, too.

I'm not sure about the non-sequiteur about off topic forums being off topic forums.
Non-sequitur? It's very sequitur. lol. If Home Recording .com is dedicated to the pursuit of better home recordings, but one sub is dedicated to things unrelated to home recording, would that sub not be considered off topic? And the threads within that off topic sub shouldn't have top stay on topic. No?

If one measures the level of vitriol by the number of reports, HR would currently be a virtual Shangri La compared top, say, a decade ago. And sure, there are fewer members to converse with now.
Well soon there won't be any reports and it's be a virtual Garden of Eden but devoid of the actual forum. Which is fine, too.
 

TAE

All you have is now
There needs to be more than just threads about mic placement and tube selection to retain visitors. Like an off topic forum that builds a community of users AROUND the HOBBY. A place where people can congregate and get to know each other outside of this hobby. A place where those users can speak freely and really get together and know each other.

And maybe on occasion real life events for those users to get together and play music and enjoy each others company while camping over the course of a weekend. Annually. In a central location for users to fly in from literally all over the world to connect with the people in that off topic forum that we used to talk to every day and make each other laugh hysterically without being overly moderated into oblivion. So much so that new users can't even grasp the concept of that idea because any part of what that off topic forum used to be has been erased from the internet completely.

In theory.
Now That's a concept Theoryously.! Once I was in a store and this baby was wailing away...I walked up to the Mom and asked her what was the matter with the little one...she sheepishly smiled and said "oh he's just teething"....I looked at the baby and then back at her and said........wait for it................................Man he sounds theoryous to me :laughings:
 

TAE

All you have is now
The conversing wasn't vitriolic enough to warrant reporting.
I'm thinking vitrolic is the wrong word
vit·ri·ol·ic
adjective
filled with bitter criticism or malice.
"vitriolic attacks on the politicians"

I read no malice or bitterness in what Joe said but certainly saw a very humorous dose of clever sarcasm...which Joe can dish out pretty artistically.

Many of us of the early Dragon Cave days definitely miss what we had there and generally feel the way it was completely erased / deleted was not at all the coolest way it could have been put to rest.

That was then, this is now and things have changed. What was will never be again and what is isn't what was. Still it's nice to see some of the old farts show up here now and then and definitely we have a whole new round of crazy characters that pop in here in PT and expound upon their insanity...still get a laugh and a red ass every now and then. AND for those hard core I miss the Dragon Cave folks we do have a facebook group but it is Facebook and there is now way what we did back in the day in the biker bar atmosphere days is happening there.
 

Mickster

Well-known member
It's a strange defense to say that HR vitriol is down because the reports are down. Your active member numbers are down likely too. Many people don't "report" anymore...especially new members. They probably just decide to leave. To make things worse......some of us here are patient and wait to see if the mods will step in on the especially personal member attacks. Let's face it.....that seems to be a thing of the past. One post here in this thread actually outlines that issue by saying that the mods here just let things go so this is a good place. By inference...that means that mods in other places he's been are more.......what? That poster has done a lot of personal attacking.

I also don't like people who are too goody two shoes either.

I'm not against PT. This happens in other threads too. I'm not against off topics threads either. It's not that complicated.

As I said.......sometimes when you realize who your drinking beer with.......the beer doesn't taste as good.

Maybe you try another bar.

Ok...so someone is likely going to say....hey...that's life...deal with it.....or.....ignore it......or whatever.

Cool....then stop wondering why HR is having trouble retaining members who love home recording or gaining new people who pop in to see if they like HR. You can't fix first impressions.

Mick
 
Cool....then stop wondering why HR is having trouble retaining members who love home recording or gaining new people who pop in to see if they like HR. You can't fix first impressions.

Mick
For the record, I think there's only one person in this thread(OP) wondering why HR member retention is so very, very, very low. And it's only because he hasn't been through the turn over and everything else. It's pretty obvious to everyone else. Some people may not want to acknowledge that but it's not wrong.
 

Mickster

Well-known member
This will sound like I'm picking on the mods.......I'm not.

Perhaps the mods feel like we will lose even more members if they crack down on some of the few but obvious posters who feel free to make matters personal and confrontational and vicious.

I submit that we lose more members and repel more possible members by this very approach.

Most people quietly leave.

Did you read what one of the best examples of such a poster wrote about the mods?

He clearly is saying that one reason for him to be here is because the mods are so lenient...and that other forums he was in were not.

Again....the mods here are...without doubt.....dedicated to keeping this forum alive and current and appealing to all here and all who may join.

But....if they're worried about offending the few who are here to spread and bask in hatred and vitriol....because they can....here......in order to "keep them" as members and not lower the numbers..........well then.....I submit that we are seeing the results of that well meaning...but flawed appraoch.

Just my thoughts.

Mick
 

Dude111

An Awesome Dude
Well most sites dont like members attacking other members directly... One can attack the IDEA but not the person. This happens alot sadly....... (Especially on hot matters)

Its sad we cant all get along,it seems like people are so upset now with how things are going they take it out on all of us which isnt right..
 

gecko zzed

Grumpy Mod
The mods are not here to keep membership numbers up. Their primary role is to ensure that the terms and conditions are being adhered to. The main method they have of doing that is responding to reports, because monitoring every post in every thread is not practical.

What will keep membership up is how interesting, engaging and informative the foum is, and whether it is better than the alternatives for being interesting, engagging and infomrative. And that is determined by the members themselves in how they interact with each other.
 

gecko zzed

Grumpy Mod
I'm thinking vitrolic is the wrong word
vit·ri·ol·ic
adjective
filled with bitter criticism or malice.
"vitriolic attacks on the politicians"

I read no malice or bitterness in what Joe said but certainly saw a very humorous dose of clever sarcasm...which Joe can dish out pretty artistically.
When I used the word 'vitriolic', I was simply quoting EZ back at him. My description was 'vigorous off-topc discussion'.
 
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60's guy

Active member
When I used the word 'vitriolic', I was simply quoting EZ back at him. My description was 'vigorous off-topc discussion'.
EZ wrote:
"And there is still the same vitriol as ever but if I had to guess it would align with the mod team's vitriol now."

I don't understand why EZ would accuse the current mod team of being vitriolic. Nothing could be further from the the truth. The current mod team here at HR has time and time again demonstrated their tolerance of the occasional differences of opinions between posters. There wasn't any "clever sarcasm" involved, as TAE suggests.

I think that the current mod team and the original owner of HR, Dragon, would have been a perfect fit.
 
Yeah, not really sure where that came from either.

I don't recall the moderators here ever caring what someone's opinion was, within reason.
The focus was more on how it was presented. Aggression, unnecessary rudeness, obvious and deliberate trolling, that kind of thing.
There was a time when HR was overrun with that, on and off topic. That is no more.

The idea that moderators are lenient and letting people do what they want - Maybe to an extent that's true now but I do find that funny.
This forum was stripped of dozens of shit-stirrers not that long ago and we took a lot of criticism for that too.
If there's a happy medium I'm not aware of it but I'd say we're pretty close for a team of four unpaid part-timers who are barely involved here now.

It has to be considered from the mod perspective too, though.
"What do we want....NO MODERATION....When do we want it?...<Sends report> He called me names!!!"

That happens a lot ^.

As to why member retention isn't great? I think it's a sign of the times more than anything.
The only reason I'd sign up to a forum these days is if I've found a thread I'm interested in but images aren't visible to guests.
I'm almost certainly not sticking around to introduce myself - Hell, I don't even really chat here.

It's different with very small specialist forums - I might join in and stick around for a while for something like that but larger broader forums? Not likely now.
My online socialising is more likely to be through discord.

My assessment of HR, looking at the close-knit core community idea, is that there's a bit of talk of missing how things were but not that much talk about shaping how things will be.
I know a few good people have tried to reach out and encourage old members to come back but, realistically, most who do come back are going to consider it a visit rather than the start of a new era.
Admittedly it doesn't help that HR is basically passive ad revenue. I'm not aware of any desire to grow it or make it more interesting or host events or competitions or any of that.
It's unlikely there'll be an owner/admin drive to build or rebuild a tight core community or improve member retention, but I think it's equally unlikely that the remnants of what was will rebuild something on their own.

In short, while there are people left who want to off-topic here, there'll be off topic here.
I think when they go, there probably won't be.
 

TAE

All you have is now
The mods here are very cool though I don't agree with everything they chose to do. Their football, their rules. I for sure was pissed off with how the Cave was not only closed but deleted...I totally understand why it was closed and agree, IMO it should not have been deleted and it does bum me out that it was, It'd of been nice to have been left to at least view and search for any of old farts who wanted to "Go back and have a laugh or memory refreshed" to do so could. BUT Nooooooooo! ;) Oh blah de Oh blah da lifes goes on.

The keeper of the city keys
Put shutters on the dreams
I wait outside the pilgrim's door
With insufficient schemes
The black queen chants
The funeral march
The cracked brass bells will ring
To summon back the fire witch
To the court of the crimson king

The gardener plants an evergreen
Whilst trampling on a flower
I chase the wind of a prism ship
To taste the sweet and sour
The pattern juggler lifts his hand
The orchestra begin
As slowly turns the grinding wheel
In the court of the crimson king
 

Starliner

Member
I don't know, but for me, it is usually a matter of time.

How long does it take to log in? Some sites are a pain.
How good / fast / accurate is the search engine?
Am I on more than one site at a time? Very possible, if I am hunting down something specific, or bidding on something.
Am I just "window-shopping" or do I actually want to go into the store (site) that day?
Am I being distracted by something else here at home?

Also, if I am not feeling good, I may want to check on a particular subject or a PM, but not want to log in.

All boards have a vibe to them. Some days, I can sync up with that board's vibe, and maybe not others.

I also go down rabbit holes... very easily distracted. And you can only visit so many rabbit holes in a day.

Starliner
 

Dude111

An Awesome Dude
Ya spammers have made things much harder to reg on many sites.. The captchas sometimes dont show,especially on older browsers... Sadly sites have had to take alot of measures to try and stop thier activities and it makes it harder for the good ones of us that dont mean any harm..
 
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