What made Trump so bad?

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WWLaidback said:
I don't want him back.
I'd prefer someone that can help the country mend.
Neither is Biden the guy.
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He has a great point there. I feel the same.

Nothing productive comes from settling with what is going on now. If you don't agree, well then you are an idiot...
 
PorterhouseMusic said:
Now wait a second. Unless there is something I've missed or misunderstood, there is ZERO evidence that she *lied* or testified "fabrications". And it is entirely possible that what she said was 100% true with regard to what actually transpired. What we do know was that some of her testimony was second hand information - something that someone else told her (heresay as you pointed out) - but that was always clear and not a secret. Just because someone else said that her second hand account was not accurate doesn't mean that it wasn't.

So I'm not at all convinced that that is an example of bad reporting.

I've been extremely busy with work - so had a chance this morning to go back and read your response more carefully.
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Hm. I don't know about bad reporting, but whatever news reporting you follow, it appears this is the first you've heard of these things. According to her hearsay testimony, there were allegedly three people in the room. She and two others. One told her of the "Trump lunging for the wheel" incident, and the other Secret Service agent heading Trump's security was actually there in the vehicle with Trump. Actually inside the vehicle. They both deny the conversation as she characterized it ever happened. The head of security who was actually there, inside the vehicle, he has denied Trump ever lunging for the wheel. They have both offered to appear and testify under oath. The Jan. 6 committee wasn't interested. No one, nobody has come forward to corroborate her testimony of Trump lunging for the wheel.

The press was all over her testimony, the big gun that was finally going to bring Trump down. Criminal charges were entirely possible...for something. As more information came to light which cast doubt on her testimony, such as I've spoke of in this post and others, she was no longer the brave hero putting herself on the line, but cast by the same press into the dustbin of history.
 
My gut reaction is to believe someone who has testified under oath as opposed to those who have not.
That said maybe time will tell.
Maybe not.
As salacious as it sounds it's nowhere near the worst of what he's done.
 
PorterhouseMusic said:
Now wait a second. Unless there is something I've missed or misunderstood, there is ZERO evidence that she *lied* or testified "fabrications".
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This is a fun one. I guess it illustrates to hilarity of the extremes these "fact check" things go to. Spoiler alert, they throw her under the bus. I mean, it doesn't say she fabricated anything. It only goes lengths for a gotcha to them damn right wingers by proving a portion of her testimony to be a fab....ahem, untrue. I'll post a link, just in case anyone wants to fact check whether politifact actually went there.

Politifact fact check.

Facebook posts claim: President Donald Trump was in a presidential limousine as he left his Jan. 6, 2021, rally at the White House Ellipse.
The posts suggested that Trump was riding in the same limousine nicknamed "The Beast" on Jan. 6 and therefore could not have reached for the steering wheel. Where did them right wingers get the idea Trump was in The Beast and therefore it would be impossible to reach the steering wheel? From Cassidy Hutchinson's sworn testimony before the Jan 6 committee.

Cassidy Hutchinson, I looked at Tony. And he had said, did you effing hear what happened in the Beast? I said, no, Tony. I just got back. What happened?

Tony proceeded to tell me that when the president got in the Beast he was under the impression from Mr. Meadows that the off-the-record movement to the Capitol was still possible and likely to happen, but that Bobby had more information. So once the president had gotten into the vehicle with Bobby, he thought that they were going up to the Capitol. And when Bobby had relayed to him, we're not, we don't have the assets to do it, it's not secure, we're going back to the West Wing, the President had very strong-- a very angry response to that. Tony described him as being irate.

The President said something to the effect of, I'm the effing president. Take me up to the Capitol now. To which Bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the West Wing. The president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr. Engel grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. We're going back to the West Wing. We're not going to the Capitol.

Fact check determination? False. Facebook right wingers were wrong. Why were they wrong? Because they believed Cassidy Hutchinson's sworn testimony before the Jan 6 committee, which was false.

Politifact. "But Trump did not take the presidential limousine pictured in the Facebook posts as he departed his rally at the White House Ellipse. Trump was in an SUV that day, a Secret Service spokesperson confirmed to PolitiFact.

A C-SPAN video of Trump’s speech at the rally — which the House Jan. 6 select committee showed during Hutchinson’s testimony — shows the presidential motorcade leaving the location. All the vehicles were SUVs.

You can't make this shit up. Oh what webs we weave. Read it for yourself, I can't do it justice.

www.politifact.com

PolitiFact - Trump was in SUV after Jan. 6 rally, not presidential limousine

Shortly after former White House staffer Cassidy Hutchinson appeared before the House committee investigating the Jan. 6
www.politifact.com www.politifact.com
 
Dave Matthews said:
My gut reaction is to believe someone who has testified under oath as opposed to those who have not.
That said maybe time will tell.
Maybe not.
As salacious as it sounds it's nowhere near the worst of what he's done.
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How would you feel if those agents were allowed to testify UNDER OATH. Would you believe them... because they were under oath??

I don’t think so because you’d now have some contradicting SWORN testimony that would be against your own predetermined desired end result.

Don’t worry , it won’t happen. You’re safe in your beliefs. The Jan 6 committee is in your corner. They won’t let those agents testify.

See, their job is not to discover truth, but to verify ‘their truth’ .
 
RFR said:
How would you feel if those agents were allowed to testify UNDER OATH. Would you believe them... because they were under oath??

I don’t think so because you’d now have some contradicting SWORN testimony that would be against your own predetermined desired end result.

Don’t worry , it won’t happen. You’re safe in your beliefs. The Jan 6 committee is in your corner. They won’t let those agents testify.

See, their job is not to discover truth, but to verify ‘their truth’ .
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Right now all we can say is someone is full of shit. Neither one of us knows who.
 
Dave Matthews said:
Right now all we can say is someone is full of shit. Neither one of us knows who.
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Definitely different stories. Let the agents testify.
Ain’t gonna happen.

I still bet even if they did, (testify) you’d pick her testimony over the agents;)
 
About every article from the mainstream press that even mentions the only two other people in the room saying what she testified to never happened add the caveat, "but they never testified under oath". Yeah, I wonder why that was, or why it's not worth a mention?
 
Mick Doobie said:
Hm. I don't know about bad reporting, but whatever news reporting you follow, it appears this is the first you've heard of these things. According to her hearsay testimony, there were allegedly three people in the room. She and two others. One told her of the "Trump lunging for the wheel" incident, and the other Secret Service agent heading Trump's security was actually there in the vehicle with Trump. Actually inside the vehicle. They both deny the conversation as she characterized it ever happened. The head of security who was actually there, inside the vehicle, he has denied Trump ever lunging for the wheel. They have both offered to appear and testify under oath. The Jan. 6 committee wasn't interested. No one, nobody has come forward to corroborate her testimony of Trump lunging for the wheel.

The press was all over her testimony, the big gun that was finally going to bring Trump down. Criminal charges were entirely possible...for something. As more information came to light which cast doubt on her testimony, such as I've spoke of in this post and others, she was no longer the brave hero putting herself on the line, but cast by the same press into the dustbin of history.
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It's not the first I've heard of "these things". I 100% stand by what I said. I can't know what actually transpired - and neither can you. I'll not argue that point any further - it is a fact. At any point in any of our discussions if I'm am shown to be dead wrong about something - you will find me saying "I was wrong".

That part of her testimony that day was set aside for me from the minute I heard it. I've not focused on it - neither should you (I say that because you've brought it up several times - it appears to me to be a bee in your bonnet). It's more or less irrelevant given the entirety of all the testimony across all of the Jan. 6th hearings.

Aside from all of that - I will not lose sight of the big picture. Trump laid the ground work for months leading up to the election with repeated statements casting doubt on the election results should they not go his way. Once he lost he doubled down and has continued to do so to this very day. With not one shred of evidence to support his claims. Nothing, nada, zip, zilch. He has succeeded in causing tens of millions of people to also have doubt about the election results - without cause. It is an utter disastrous outcome. The damage cannot be overstated.

I have a concern that he will return to the presidency. It looks to me like there is a possibility that local government, state legislatures, and/or state attorneys general may force trump back in office - possibly against the will of the voters in their respective states. And trump would return, no doubt, with harsh retribution in mind. He is all about grievance.
 
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get women out of politics.

then..

Man, I should have supported Trump. I hate the bastard, but he just makes so much sense..

Screenshot 2022-08-07 074756.jpg

If he shit cans the education system, the whole thing....you got my vote.

1 st step to getting the country on track, get a working class labor foundation.
 
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PorterhouseMusic said:
It's not the first I've heard of "these things". I 100% stand by what I said. I can't know what actually transpired - and neither can you. I'll not argue that point any further - it is a fact. At any point in any of our discussions if I'm am shown to be dead wrong about something - you will find me saying "I was wrong".

That part of her testimony that day was set aside for me from the minute I heard it. I've not focused on it - neither should you (I say that because you've brought it up several times - it appears to me to be a bee in your bonnet). It's more or less irrelevant given the entirety of all the testimony across all of the Jan. 6th hearings.

Aside from all of that - I will not lose sight of the big picture. Trump laid the ground work for months leading up to the election with repeated statements casting doubt on the election results should they not go his way. Once he lost he doubled down and has continued to do so to this very day. With not one shred of evidence to support his claims. Nothing, nada, zip, zilch. He has succeeded in causing tens of millions of people to also have doubt about the election results - without cause. It is an utter disastrous outcome. The damage cannot be overstated.

I have a concern that he will return to the presidency. It looks to me like there is a possibility that local government, state legislatures, and/or state attorneys general may force trump back in office - possibly against the will of the voters in their respective states. And trump would return, no doubt, with harsh retribution in mind. He is all about grievance.
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Bee in my bonnet? Hell, according to the mainstream media she was the new John Dean, her explosive testimony was the smoking gun that was going to finally bring Trump down, possibly result in criminal charges, prison. Now that her testimony has come under question it's no longer worthy of focus, irrelevant, not important to talk about it and move on to Trump and I can only assume Republican officials are going to steal the next election? That's unhinged and insane. But that's what the Jan 6 hearing and her testimony is all about, isn't it? It's far less about finding the truth about what happened in the past than it is preventing what could happen on the future, President Donald Trump winning the next election and once again becoming President.

As far as you or I not being there to actually witness what transpired, when is that not the case? Juries who are charged with determining guilt or innocence are never there, they rely on sworn testimony in order to make that determination. The committee can believe her testimony as the gospel truth, but I can't consider the inconsistencies to determine she is not credible, and possibly even lying or fabricating? I mean, you don't care whether she lied to the committee, don't care that the committee won't call witnesses to provide sworn testimony that she is not being truthful (under oath), and it's all irrelevant & and we should move on.

You don't want to talk about it any longer, fine. Don't. But the way I see it, it's bigger than her. It's an indictment on the committee, those conducting the investigation, and the press....as a sham.
 
I know youve said you don't want to talk about Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony, the inconsistencies and what not, and that's fine, your choice. But I would be curious as to what you think about that Politifact fact check thing.

Politifact was so hell bent on owning right winger posts on Facebook that in illustrating that the right wingers were spreading false information they also proved part of Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony to be false. Ain't that something. Heh.

You know, rumor has it that when a witness provides sworn testimony, and parts of that testimony is proven to be false, that witness is no longer considered a reliable witness, or worse. Perjury.

Oh well, that's all irrelevant now. We gotta look at the big picture, keeping Trump out of office.
 
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