wave help

  • Thread starter Thread starter elicantu
  • Start date Start date
E

elicantu

New member
ok i've been reading/experimenting
how do you get your wave to look like a sloid brick but keep the waveforms without affecting the mix volume?
when i turn up the guitar the wave gets bigger right?
well how can all the waves look the same but have different mix levels?
also
i know everybody says that you cant get a song to have "commercial" loudness but lets say that i had all the stuff that the pro's have..how would i do it?
because i have been reading and experimenting and buying new gear to have that waveform that everyband has that solid brick that doesn't clip and doesnt kill the waveforms.
and please dont send me alink to that page about the sound war or something because ialready had like 4 people send me that and i already read it a couple of times. and i get it
but people that i record dont.
they want it loud and they want the waveform nice.

HOW DO YOU DO IT?????????
 
Wow.......

Seriously, why do you (or whoever you are recording) care what the waveforms look like? That's absolutely retarded, regardless if you're just trying to get it loud or not.

Run the mix through a compressor. Set the threshold really low, and then mess with the attack/release settings until it sounds really squashed, then add a limiter and keep messing with it until it looks like a brick wall.

Watch out for little tiny razor edges on the top of the waveform, you don't want these. The thing needs to be perfectly flat like a block. Digital distortion is also very pleasing to everyone's ears, so that's a bonus.

Some people might not like how the music sounds, but tell the band to print the waveform pictures on the CD inserts so people can appreciate those perfectly straight blocks of crap.
 
elicantu said:
but lets say that i had all the stuff that the pro's have..how would i do it?
Click to expand...
By spending several years actually learning the trade the way the pros have.

And then by getting paid as much as the pros do to generate that garbage, because if they weren't getting paid good money to purposely ruin that stuff by turning it into brick shithouses, they almost surely would instead be making good sounding productions that they'd actually want to listen to.

G.
 
IK's T-Racks. Turn up the make-up gains on each of the devices. Don't touch the soft clipper at the bottom.

You should be able to make a nice-looking, solid waveform without much trouble.

Heck, you might hear dither if you crank up the noise floor enough.
 
elicantu said:
ok i've been reading/experimenting
how do you get your wave to look like a sloid brick but keep the waveforms without affecting the mix volume?
when i turn up the guitar the wave gets bigger right?
well how can all the waves look the same but have different mix levels?
also
i know everybody says that you cant get a song to have "commercial" loudness but lets say that i had all the stuff that the pro's have..how would i do it?
because i have been reading and experimenting and buying new gear to have that waveform that everyband has that solid brick that doesn't clip and doesnt kill the waveforms.
and please dont send me alink to that page about the sound war or something because ialready had like 4 people send me that and i already read it a couple of times. and i get it
but people that i record dont.
they want it loud and they want the waveform nice.

HOW DO YOU DO IT?????????
Click to expand...

WHY!!!! would you care what it looks like? Dont fall pray to it has to look like a solid wave and be as loud as possible.
 
YES ! ! !

Finally someone who GETS IT.

What you need to do is use a hard limiter and set the threshold all the way down to the bottom, and the makeup gain all the way to the top.

For an example of what your waves should look like, you can reference this link:

http://www.pathguy.com/flattop.htm

Good luck.
 
benny chiko thanks for the link....again..:D
and i know..honestly i hate the sound of this brick wall looking piece of crap but the argument of the band is..look at coldplay's waveforms they look like a block to me..

and i was thinking ...coldplay sounds good..but their waves are block ish....?
whats up with that?
 
elicantu said:
coldplay sounds good..but their waves are block ish....?
Click to expand...
Just because their waves look like that doesn't mean that's the reason that sound good, they sound good in spite of that. You'd be suprised at how much better they'd sound if their waves WEREN'T like that. Smashing the mix like that doesn't make it sound better, it makes it sound worse.

The fact is that they sound that good because they already sounded even better before they smashed it, not that the smashing it made it sound better.

You want to smash the crap out of your stuff just because that's what they did to Coldplay? Then you guys had better sound as good a Coldplay, you better record in a space with with pro gear and experienced techniques applied as good as they did with Coldplay, get those tracks mixed by quality engineers with really good ears like they did with Coldplay. Then, maybe, you'll have a good enough mix that can hold together long enough to withstand some level of smashing, so that even though it'll sound demonstrably worse (and frankly, those Coldplay recordings sound awfully pushed to me), it'll still be listenable.

G.
 
ok. whenever i mix should i just mix to whatever sounds right? what about the wave? should i be concerned about the wave when mixing?
lets say i mix everything but at the end the level is actually super low but i thought it was high because my "control room" knob was up. what should i do?
or let's say that i mix something and it sound right but then the wave ends up looking like crap(alll peaked out and block looking) what should i do?

how can i mix good and have the volume commercial level ish?
 
elicantu said:
i know everybody says that you cant get a song to have "commercial" loudness but lets say that i had all the stuff that the pro's have..how would i do it?
Click to expand...

Simple answer - you wouldn't. It's not really the gear that does it. If I gave you Monet's paintbrush you still wouldn't be able to paint a Monet, now would you? If I gave you Jimi Hendrix's guitar, you wouldn't be able to play a solo like Jimi, would you? Well, you might, if you had been doing it for a while and really got to know your tools. It's not something that is going to be explainable very easily over the internet, just as how to paint a Monet is not either.
 
Last edited:
elicantu said:
ok. whenever i mix should i just mix to whatever sounds right? what about the wave? should i be concerned about the wave when mixing?
Click to expand...

Yes. The only time you should worry about the WAV is when you are editing.

elicantu said:
lets say i mix everything but at the end the level is actually super low but i thought it was high because my "control room" knob was up. what should i do?
or let's say that i mix something and it sound right but then the wave ends up looking like crap(alll peaked out and block looking) what should i do?
Click to expand...

You shouldn't be recording by the level coming out of your speakers. You need to read up on gain staging. Again, why do you care what the WAV looks like?

elicantu said:
how can i mix good and have the volume commercial level ish?
Click to expand...


You can't - at least not yet. Hell, I can't even come close, and I hope my mixes at least sound somewhat good compared to someone who is asking so many visual questions. Audio is not a visual medium. :D
 
If your customer wants it to LOOK like that compress or limit the shit out of it or both. Personally I've never cared what music LOOKS like.
 
elicantu said:
ok. whenever i mix should i just mix to whatever sounds right?
Click to expand...
Absolutely.

Remember that when you track at 0VU on the analog side, that actually averages out to somehwere around -18dBFS on the digital meter, with individual peaks that can range anywhere from -12 to -6 dBFS, give or take. This means that natural, quality recording levels are not only not squared off, but don't even come close to maxing out even on the peaks. Mix them together and the overall mix level will naturally go up, but even then you'll want to mix to keep your peaks below 0dBFS.

If you want to try and raise things after that, that's another story. But wait until the mix is done before you even think about it. And even then, you want to let you ears dictate how far you push, not your eyes. Most home recordings are going to fall apart noticably quicker than many pro ones will. Let you ears guide you there.
elicantu said:
what about the wave? should i be concerned about the wave when mixing?
Click to expand...
Only to make sure you're keeping the mix below clipping. And there you'll be watching your mix bus meters, not the actual waveforms.

Think of it like this. Do you drive your car by watching your speedometer? Yes, Jeff Gordon can push 200mph in his Nascar ride, but if he gave you the keys, if you tried going as fast as him, you'd wind up in the hospital instead of the finish line...especially if you kept staring at the dashboard instead of paying attention to the road :).
elicantu said:
lets say i mix everything but at the end the level is actually super low but i thought it was high because my "control room" knob was up. what should i do?
Click to expand...
re read the first paragraph in this reply. What many think is "super low" for the mix, is actually the natural level that things should be coming out at during mixing.
elicantu said:
or let's say that i mix something and it sound right but then the wave ends up looking like crap(alll peaked out and block looking) what should i do?
Click to expand...
Ask yourself if people are going to be listeing to your music or looking at it. The answer to that question should answer this question. :)
elicantu said:
how can i mix good and have the volume commercial level ish?
Click to expand...
Start by getting the recording as good as possible. Then mix as mentioned above, by ear. Get your mix to sound as good as possible without clipping. Then from there you can try pushing the master mix up in volume a bit, but you still need to get it done by ear. If you can make it to commercial levels and still actually sound good, consider yourself extremely lucky. But unless you get everything commercial quality up to that point in the process, don't count on being able to take it quite all the way in the last step.

And take a few minutes and really *LISTEN* to those Coldplay cuts. Ignore the band and the music, and listen to the technical production. Does it really sound as good as you and your boys think it does? Really? I think you'll find a whole lot of experienced engineers who would not necessarily think so :). For what little my opinion is worth here, that stuff SOUNDS pushed; it sounds exactly like the volume has been pushed harder than the mix wants it to go. That is not a good thing.

G.
 
man thanks southside glen:D thats as good as an answer gets and yeah ya'll are right its not like everybody looks at the wave instead of listening to it.

thanks ya'll for all your answers
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top