$ to start a "pro" studio

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wes480

wes480

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I am speaking strictly in terms of gear here...not actual studio design...so maybe that's where the confusion is coming in.

i read in another thread where Blue Bear said you needed at least 50,000 in "gear" (i think) to start doing real clients...

i just don't see how that adds up. i guess it depends on what kind of music the clients are doing to an extent....but...if you had

A full RADAR24 system for about 13,000
couple great rivers, rnp, assorted preamps - 5,000
and 5,000 in mics..

I think you could be rolling "big boy" sound for maybe....25-30 grand.

Of course, then you'd need a Mac/PC system as well...for more "editing"...hrmm, yeah I guess the numbers to creep up there quickly.

ok, so 50 isn't such a far reach. maybe you could do it for 35-40....but at that point, thats 15 grand.

heh
 
Yup. Studio design/acoustics play a BIG money role in this, but there are other factors, too. To be a commercial facility, you need to be able to accomodate ANYONE that comes in. That means that one or two good condensors, one good pre, and a bunch of 57s won't cut it.

I'll bet that for 65 or 75% of sessions that run through my studio I only use three channels from the board and one mic, and one pre, but for the other 25% I have to be ready to pull out the rest.

No one doubts that great sounds can be recorded for less than $50 grand, but getting a commercial facility up and running for that is a BIG stretch.

Ken Rutkowski
www.OuterLimitRecordingStudio.com
 
how about the hidden costs?

once you start adding in the "little things"... patchbays, cables, wiring, monitor systems, adapters, etc... it creeps up even further.

I've spent almost enough on cables and patchbays in the last couple of months, re-wiring my (modest) home studio to buy a cheap digital recorder.

and I *like* Hosa cable... we're not talking Monster cable or anything super duper.

Once you say "pro" you're going to find that the Radio Shack patch cables aren't going to make it. Also, $5K isn't a lot for a "pro" mic cabinet... you can blow that on on Neumann.

just my $.02

- housepig
 
Let's not forget instruments. If you are going to do much in the way of jazz, classical, or other acoustic styles, you'll need a good piano. And maybe a B-3. (Everything else can be more easily carried in.)

If you're talking Steinway, oops - the budget just doubled! :p
 
You also don't mention a mixer and any effects processors. Using a RADAR for recording also requires a mixer for montoring.

You could setup a pro level tracking studio for $20K but for any serious mixdown work you need to add another $20-30K.
 
Yeah, there's a lot more to it than just being able to get high quality sound a few tracks at a time. The key to being commercial is flexibility - what are you gonna do if you get a call from a band with vox, gtr., bass, drums, piano and 5 horns, and they want to record "live" (i.e. minimal or no overdubs)? What if they want a choice of pre-amps(X12)? Don't forget you'll need numerous channels of compression - of several different flavors. ("We want to track with 1176s on all the drum mics, LA2As on vox and elec. gtrs. and GMLs on everything else..."). I've got over $100,000 just in gear in my home studio, and it still can't measure up to even "B" level pro studios. If you're willing to do everything "my way" and don't need to track more than 12 channels at once, I can probably rival the sonics of all but the top tier studios. But would any major lable take second (or 3rd) best, or any producer work under the constraints necessitated by my limited equipment? NO. That's why I don't have a commercial studio - I have a very good "home" or "project" studio. And I don't rent it out. If you want to hire me as an engineer, I might choose to do preproduction at home, but the 'real' recording will be done at a pro studio (although we might keep a track or 2 from the pre-pro sessions). If you have some really amazing sounding rooms and some really good pro rental houses within an hours drive, you might get away with opening a pro studio with only $50,000 worth of 'core' gear - but I doubt it.

Scott
 
What if you only wanted to record yourself professionally, not for a business, but to produce professional recordings of yourself to sell 10,000-20,000 CD's. Would that really take 50 Gee's if you have all the instruments, and you don't record many instruments at a time? Thanks
 
Nope. What you then need is a room with decent acoustics, a good system to track to, a good recording mixer, good monitors and the microphones and preamps that suit you. So of you just want to record yourself it gets much cheaper, and unless "yourself" is a band you don't even need separate recording and monitor rooms. :-)

If you need something special you can rent it, which is cheaper than buying it if you only use it once.

The people who work like this professionally typically take their finished recordings to a professional mixing studio in the end.

I think you could easily do that for USD25k.
 
Speaking for a small amount of experiece, Blue is very very conservative with his 50K, I'd consider that an absolute minimum.
I'm not saying that you cannot built up some nice gear for that amount, but if you are talking about something that needs to earn money - that's another thing all together.

Also, consider that its a good estimate to take the cost of equipment and add 40% to that to cover the cost of 'extra's', like wiring, racks, desks etc.
 
Alot of what keeps clients rolling in, is the fact that you might have many options....

Sure you can run out and get that Otari Radar24 thing.... But where do all the Analog fanatics in your city go....

Almost every "pro" studio, I can think of in the Toronto area has a few different choices of recording method. (I mean real pro, not some guy who has rented a place and stuffed a bit of cool gear in it..).. I mean "world class"

A local Pro Studio here, has Pro Tools, and a regular Analog 24 track 2" tape system...

A vintage MCI console for the analog, and a Pro Control 24. for the Pro Tools Rig....

I mean, those rigs alone are $80,000 all together at the bare minimum..... maybe even closer to $100,000+++

Nevermind the converters, pre's.... Mic selection......

A few Drawmer Eq's... theres $10,000... Most Pro studios around here have a few of them....

What about the 5-6 Reverb modules you'll need.... Probably Lexicon..... $1000++ ea.......


Then add $50,000+++ To build the place, and thats being cheap.....

If your starting from the ground up, you'd probably be looking at $200,000 to build the structure...

But, were not really talking about that part.....




I'm not sure I have heard any of your stuff in the clinic Wes480.... How does it sound?....

The biggest part of word of mouth studio reputation is when former clients boast about the sound.....

Anyone can learn the knobs, and text book crap.... but, were you born with the ears?...

(serious question there).....


I have seen a few people start up pro studios in my area, and ok, so they have the cool gear and a U47 to go with it... But Im blowing them away with my mixes on my digi 001....

(Thats not my personal opinion, in fact im pretty hard on myself about my sound, but, that previous statement was based on Reviews I get, including the one in Recording Magazine 07/02)

Im not a commercial studio.... just "project for my own use"....Shit, I don't even have a console, I mix onscreen, but STILL , I have had a few bands who have had bad experiences at huge pro studio's... They want to come to ME for the commercial "pop/rock" sound that im sort of known for in minor circles..

But as I said, im not in "business" so I don't really do other peoples stuff....

All I'm saying is, make sure you have the sound first....... or at least start with a bit of gear in the beginning and try and hone your sound.....

That alone will take you.

Don't get a loan and dive in... Seen that all too many a time.

Rarely stays afloat.
 
I'm in the sme boat with Vox except that I have a piece of shit console so it makes it much easier to track "bands" (read lots of mics at the same time). Gear, ears and toys are a big part of the picture but a good room (which I SERIOUSLY lack) makes all the difference and I feel that's the biggest stumbling block between guys like me and a commercial studio with an "A" room, a "B" room and a spot for the symphony to set up.
 
Track Rat said:
I'm in the sme boat with Vox except that I have a piece of shit console so it makes it much easier to track "bands" (read lots of mics at the same time).
Click to expand...

Actually, I lied...:D.. Ok, well, refused to divulge the info is a better way to say it ;)

I do have a "console".. I use my Mackie CR1604 if I need to do the many-a-mic thing..

I also have a 16 channel 4 bus Soundcraft 400b, but never bother with it.. it's been in my storage locker for 2 years...

Nice unit too..:D
 
You're right, Regebro, because I am doing exactly what you said for about $25K. No separate control room, and all remixing and mastering will be outsourced to people with more gear and expertise than us. Actually, we might have been able to do it for $20K, but I'm including $5K in high-end axes. Pictures of the studio will probably be going up on www.bardwire.com today. Pro studio- ha ha ha, in my dreams.-Richie
P.S.- pics are up, on a link off the projects page. It may not be much of a studio, but it's *my* studio- Yay!
 
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MAYBE A BIT OFF TRACK BUT...

Ok I like to chime in on this one.

First of all, I like to state that I have NO knowledge of how to run
any kind of recording studio at all.

I also have a long way to go in learning the art of recording before I'm able to get a decent sounding song out of my little project studio, as you can hear.

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1691&alid=-1

This has cost me about $4000 in mostly used gear so far, with no real facility to record in yet.

Wes,
Are you planing to build a pro studio, & why if so ?

This is what little I do know...

1) I DO own a business, not music, but most people think before you open a business of any kind you should invest in this, buy that, get that form, register your name somewhere, bla, bla, bla...

If I were to listen to every idiot that "KNEW" how to start a business, never owning one them selves, I would have never have made a dime. At this point in my life, I have not had a boss in almost eight years. I have even learned the secret of having a business.... ready.... have clients.

I've seen people run a business in the most fucked up disorganized way, & even be rude to every one they run into but, if they have clients, they stay in business.

2) I decided about 2 years ago that I was going to get recording equipment, so I could record my own songs with no time restrictions & of "FAIR" quality. Period.

After that decision, some how I found myself in a band that wanted to DESPERATELY record with me.

3) Out and about living my life, I met many other musicians/song writers that were interested in the aspect that I was building a small personal studio. These people basically started offering me money to record them, knowing nothing about my equipment or even more important my recording skills, which I have stated, have a long way to go.

4) I've have made a decision, I'm going to build a very small recording studio in my basement. There will be a control room, 1 Vocal booth, 1 recording room for drums & amps, a bathroom & a lounge with a sink, wet bar, & small refrigerator.

5) I will continue to record my songs with my band.(primary purpose)

6) I will spread the word at local bars that I own a small recording facility. I will introduce myself to bands and song writers & tell them about my studio, & perhaps for a small fee, $15-$20 per hour, I will record some of their music. I will explain to them that my equipment is not state of the art, nor am I an experienced engineer but, if we are careful & take our time, together we just may get something down that we can be proud of.

Hell, I'm proud of my recording, even with all of its flaws, I still have a song that sounds fair to me & next time I hope I'll be better at the recording process.

As far as the little business is concerned, I'll give it a shot & see where life takes me.

Maybe it won't work out but....


Sean
 
that is a very sensible and realistic approach, which also, with all due respect, prove if you, yourself, have the talent and / or patience to eventually make it a living. Also, if your familie are prepared to live with a person who keeps strange and long hours.
Use the money to buy better gear........
 
no, I'm not planning on starting a recording studio/business anytime soon.

Once I know I am good and am confident in my abilities, and if I have established a "name" for myself at least locally, then at that point like you said I would consider putting some money into it on a small level.

I just started this thread becuase 50grand sounded a tad high to me for just the gear...but, it really isn't afterall.
 
Re: MAYBE A BIT OFF TRACK BUT...

smellyfuzz said:
4) I've have made a decision, I'm going to build a very small recording studio in my basement. There will be a control room, 1 Vocal booth, 1 recording room for drums & amps, a bathroom & a lounge with a sink, wet bar, & small refrigerator.

5) I will continue to record my songs with my band.(primary purpose)

6) I will spread the word at local bars that I own a small recording facility. I will introduce myself to bands and song writers & tell them about my studio, & perhaps for a small fee, $15-$20 per hour, I will record some of their music. I will explain to them that my equipment is not state of the art, nor am I an experienced engineer but, if we are careful & take our time, together we just may get something down that we can be proud of.
Click to expand...

Sean, I like your reasoning, and I admire you for being able to think this way. You've obviously got two very necessary skills:

1) An entrepreneureal attitude.

2) Sales skills.

These will take you far. Another thing I think you've got going for you is an understanding of who your client base will be, and a realistic attitude. You obviously don't expect to take on the next Guns & Roses project, but that's obviously not who you're targeting.

Now I'm speaking as someone who's done EXACTLY and to a T all of the things you've just outlined. From this vantage point, there's a few things I'd like to share with you:

1) Don't listen to people who say you can't do it for less than $50K, $100K or whatever. That's nonsense. A business is a business. Just because you can't open a 4-star restaurant with a wine list that starts out at $25 / glass . . . . . doesn't mean you can't open a corner burger joint for those who want a quick, fast bite to eat that won't cost a fortune.

The people you are targeting should already understand that they're limited by their budget . . . as well as by what your facility has to offer.

2) Don't expect to make a lot of money. The people you are targeting will be those who don't have the money to spend on more expensive studio time. Which means that many of them won't have a lot of money, period.

Another thing to consider is that about half of the time, people will be cancelling their sessions with you. That's just the nature of musicians. They are flaky, preoccupied, and generally disorganized. :D If you get really lucky and book maybe 40 hours of studio time for a given week, expect about half of it to cancel on you.

Finally, there's one thing you said that I think will be your downfall, and it's this statement:

"First of all, I like to state that I have NO knowledge of how to run any kind of recording studio at all. I also have a long way to go in learning the art of recording before I'm able to get a decent sounding song out of my little project studio, as you can hear."

No matter how much upgrading you do to your studio . . . even $10 / hour is still too much for me to pay someone who says this. I wouldn't pay $5 / hour for this person to produce my 4-song demo, even if he did it at Abbey Road Studios.

You gotta' learn what the heck you're doing before you even think of starting a business. Would you go to an auto mechanic who admittedly knew little about fixing cars? . . . hell, I'll do it really cheap, but I won't guarantee it will run.

And I realize there are plenty of idiots out there who are running businenesses and don't know what the phuk they're doing, but PLEASE don't add to that number ! ! :D

So my advice to you is to take that entrepreneureal attitude and put it to work by learning as much as you can about the art of recording. If you go around trying to sell your services, but you can't speak the language, people will pick up on this. Add to it the fact that a few of your mixes may get out there . . . people might listen to them, frown, and say "Who the phuk did that crap?" And they'll make a mental note not to call you when it's their turn to record, and word could spread.

:D LOL. I'm sorry for being harsh, and I admittedly didn't listen to your examples, so please don't take it personal. I'm just trying to be helpful.
 
Re: Re: MAYBE A BIT OFF TRACK BUT...

chessrock said:



1) Don't listen to people who say you can't do it for less than $50K, $100K or whatever. That's nonsense. A business is a business. Just because you can't open a 4-star restaurant with a wine list that starts out at $25 / glass . . . . . doesn't mean you can't open a corner burger joint for those who want a quick, fast bite to eat that won't cost a fortune.
Click to expand...

Thats a great post there Chessrock..... But,

Just make sure your not forgetting the context of this thread.... We are talking about Pro Studio's... Not Burger Joint studio's..... (Ok, thats a funny way to put it but you know what I mean.)

If the question were "Is it possible to start a small scale project studio, and open it for clientelle for (insert amount) dollars..." We would have been talking Cubase, Adats and Mackie boards...

I don't want you to think were all dreamers, cause were suggesting $100,000 studio start up fees.....

I TOTALLY agree with your statement that i'm quoting, and that it is totally possibe that a studio could be started for much, much less....

But, Not in the context of this thread..

When you read the title of this thread he says "Pro", most of us are thinking your standard pro studio like Ocean Way, River Sound, South Beach.... Which are all zillion $$ facilities... Not a guy with 3 adats and a Mackie or Digi 001.... (Burger joint level)

I just wanted to make sure we are all on the same page here..:)
 
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