This is my setup... advice needed...

[shadow5606]

hello all... VERY new to home recording & I've managed to piece together a system. The weakest link is my mixer but I wanted to get everyones 2 cents anyway. I'm an aspiring singer/songwriter & primarily recording vocals & acoustic guitar. (my ovation) Any tips tricks, advice would be great. I "think" that my 1st upgrade should be my mixer but I'm just not sure. Please let me know what you think of this setup & what you'd do w/ it.

Mic: Rode NT1-A w/ shockmount Cost: $200
http://www.digitalplayroom.com/rode/nt1.htm

Phantom power: (don't know brand) Cost: $40
This is because my mixer has no phantom power OR XLR hookups. My only concern is that I only have 1 XLR cable on hand so I've hooked my mic to the phantom power module via a 6ft XLR cable & then the only thing between the phantom power & the 1/4 inch in on my mixer is a little transformer/adapter to convert it from XLR to 1/4 inch. (i.e. my phantom power module is physically VERY close to my mixer.)

Mixer: TEAC (Model something) Cost: FREE (donated by a friend)
This is OLD, OLD, OLD... I'm assuming that the old preamps in this are negating most of the positive effects of a decent mic.

Sound card: M-Audio Audiophile 2496 Cost: $150 (seems to be pretty good quality from what I can tell)
http://www.midiman.net/products/m-audio/audiophile.php

PC: 1.3Ghz Celeron w/ 256 megs of RAM. Using SONAR 2.0 XL & Acid 3.0 as my primary DAW's.

 

[Doug Quance]

A mixer would be nice, for sure.

I have a little Mackie 1202VLZ Pro, which you can pick up new for about $300. It's not the greatest in the world, but for the money, it's very acceptable. The preamps are fairly decent, and the board is fairly quiet.

You might also look at a compressor. The RNC from fmraudio.com is a good choice for under $200.

 

[shadow5606]

Cheap mixers...

I'm thinking of getting a really cheap mixer around $70-$90. That way I could get rid of the external phantom power supply. I'm wondering if that cheap of a mixer w/ built in phantom power & more up to date preamps would be my best cheap upgrade?

 

[shadow5606]

Compressor??

Also, what would a compressor do for me? In simple terms...

 

[Doug Quance]

If you can find a decent board for that kind of money....

My guess would be a board that cheap... comes that cheap for a reason.

Obviously, it will be used (or a Behringer).

If you can put out the money for a better board, I would suggest it. Otherwise, try to find the best used board you can afford.

 

[Doug Quance]

Vocals have a great dynamic range... from a soft whisper to a roar... the compressor will help even out the performance. It will also help "fatten" the vocal sound.

 

[shadow5606]

Mixer options

If I got a new mixer this is the sort of thing that would be in my budget... I'm wondering if these would make a great difference as cheap as they are. They'd be replacing my expternal power supply & a VERY VERY old mixer. (TEAC Model 2)

Behringer Eurorack UB802 Mixerhttp://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=030331072703168215073012908817/search/g=rec/detail/base_id/88620

OR

Behringer Eurorack UB1002
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...73012908817/search/g=rec/detail/base_id/88619

OR

MX802A
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7...73012908817/search/g=rec/detail/base_id/35499

 

[Doug Quance]

I'll have to leave that up to those who are familiar with the Behringer mixers.

I haven't heard much good about them, but then again... I've never owned one.

My take is that if you want to go inexpensively to start... then any decent mixer is better than one that is not...

Just keep in mind what's in your signal chain.

If you start with a bad mic... you'll never get good sound.

If your board is noisy... you'll hear the noise.

 

[shadow5606]

back to compressors

going back to that compressor idea you had for me... what about the built in software compression options that Cakewalk SONAR & Steinberg WaveLab have to offer? I've not played w/ them but I can run them on my audio AFTER it's recorded. Would that do much for me?

 

[jrosenstein]

yes, you can can compress your vocals with the software. if you get the Audiophile and record at 24 bits, you'll have plenty of headroom to play with. i.e. you'll have to record at a lower volume, but you can boost it digitally with negligible quality loss.

i'd put my money into a good chain of mic/preamp/soundcard before i worried about compression.

 

[Toker41]

The thing to keep in mind about Behringer is that most people that have a negative opinion about them have never really spent any time with them. Behringer was sued by Mackie for copyright infringment. Behringer took the Mackie boards and reverse engineered them, then had the parts made overseas to produce a product of the same basic design, but at a much lower price. Mackie won the law suit, but to date Behringer has not paid up. Nor, have they stopped thier practice of copy. Behringer has caught some bad PR over this. When I checked into a Behringer board I caught alot of crap from people that swore by their Mackie, and would not buy Behringer because of it's unethical business practices. Most of these people where telling me this as they type away on a PC (which is nothing more than a stolen, cheap ass copy of a Mac!) American businesses have no ethics. If the copy was close enough to be sued for, and the price is THAT much cheaper (and it is alot cheaper!), then I feel that Mackie is ripping off consumers (like most companies do to musicians...i.e. Gibson getting $2500 for a les paul that cost les than $300 to make). I am very happy with my Behringer mixer. I will admit that it is not as nice as the Mackies I have worked with, but the difference is not even close to making up the difference in price. If I can get a product for $250 and it is ALMOST (and I'm talking a very, very almost) as good as the one for $800, it's a no brainer. Being a musician for over 30 years now, I don't mind helping out the company that is ripping off one of the ones that have ripped us off for years.
P.S. I use the UB1382 FX pro, and it is NOT noisey in the least. The effects, however, are weak, but good enough to add a little effect to vocals just for monitoring while recording.

 

[DJL]

Behringer was sued by Mackie for copyright infringment.

<snip>

Too bad they didn't copy a better mixer.

 

[chessparov]

shadow, the new Behringer UB series is superior to their old one.

The UB802 will have slightly better sound than the UB 1002 as it
is a smaller "footprint". The Mackie and Behringers don't "scale" up well when you get into their larger boards due to their circuitry.
That's why a Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro will sound better than a "big"
VLZ Pro board, for example.

The Rode NT-1A is supposed to be the improved/revised version of the original NT-1 (which I owned/used/sold).

If you tell me the model number of your Teac, I can probably tell you more about it, if you're curious. It could still turn out to be handy for practicing and rehearsals.

Chris

 

[shadow5606]

Chessparov,

I'm pretty sure it's a TEAC Model 2. It's not right in front of me. it's a 6 chanel mixer w/ 4 busses. Pan adjustment but no EQ. Has 1/4 inch in's on the back as well as an RCA line in & RCA Cue out for each channel. Hope that helps a bit!!

 

[shadow5606]

Got my Behringer

Actually I started crunching numbers...

Guitar Cetner sells a Behringer MX602A for only $60. I paid $40 for my Phantom power & another $15 for my XLR to 1/4inch transformer. Soooo... w/ only a $5 difference Guitar center said they'd make it an even trade for me. Seemed like a no brainer.

Haven't got to play w/ it much but they claim even though the MX602A is super small that it uses the same pre's that their top of the line board uses. That's the mail thing I need out of a mixer is decent & quiet pres...

Based on a test or two I LOVE it... compared to my old TEAC that is. I've never used a Mackie & maybe down the line I'll have the money for it but for now I'm going to stick w/ my pint size 602A.

 

[shadow5606]

Chessparov,

By the way, what did you think about that Rode mic. I don't know ANYTHING about mics but so far it seems great for me. Now that I've got that new Behringer I have a 3 band EQ that I was missing before & being able to tweak like that I really love the sound that I'm getting.

Makes me want to work on my guitar playing now that I'm getting such a great sound!!

By the way, since that mic technically pics up from the front, do you have any tips for micing guitar or vocals w/ it. I kinda like the sound if I aim it straight on so it's more of an indirect pickup. Haven't had time to properly experiment though!

 

[Modus]

By the way, since that mic technically pics up from the front, do you have any tips for micing guitar or vocals w/ it. I kinda like the sound if I aim it straight on so it's more of an indirect pickup. Haven't had time to properly experiment though!

Go to the sticky thread at the top of the mic forum called "How does diaphragm size/polar pattern relate to mic applications?", and start reading.
I'm still reading and studying this thread (its really long, sometimes refered to as "the big thread") but it is time very well spent! Taking the time reading and trying to understand this thread was the first breakthrough I had to understanding mic positioning and im still learning other things from it as well. That should point you in the right direction for learning everything you wanted to know about mics.
For a starting point on micing the guitar, start out by pointing it somewhere around the 12th fret about a foot away. Thats just a starting point, play around with the positioning, move it closer and further, you can angle it towards the sound hole or towards the frets. Play with it untill you get what sounds best to you.
For vocals you can do a straight "in your face" kind of position. Pretty self explanitory. I didn't have any sort of pop screen to start with and also my T's and S's are pretty strong so sometimes I like to do vocals with the mic about 5 inches away from my forehead pointing down diagonally at my nose.
Those are some starter points for you, also, you should click on the search button and look for some mic positioning tips and tricks youll find a lot on here. Happy recording!

Modus

 

[chessparov]

shadow, the Teac Model was a very popular mixer for the Tascam semi-pro reel to reels.
The original NT-1 had an overly hyped top end and was too bright IMHO. Yours is most likely is a tangible improvement over that one.
It's always a good idea to use a pop screen to minimize plosives and to help protect a condenser's capsule from moisture.
Chris