The Tomco kitchen remodel

[TAE]

As per 60's guys request I'm going to document the kitchen remodHell here...

Doing a good job of not coming here wasting time so far but stopped in this morning as I woke up a little early and Home Depot is not open yet...

Well so far so not so bad.....UGH I'm old....and easily pissed off....sore as shit.

This woken / Covid breeding world we are living in is a Mutha Fucka...Prices are through the roof of construction materials...shortages , out of stock is the norm...the "help" at the Box stores is really heading south...There are still some that have a clue...
The online inventory is certainly not an exact science and sometimes even though the item is actually there...figuring out where it is ( cause it isn't where the the app says it is) is a ton of fun...spent @ 45 minutes finding and finally getting a 100' roll of pex down off of a rack yesterday.

All said this is wild....The wife is pretty pissed off that up to now it's pretty much just been me doing everything...

So far I tore out the side of the kitchen where the the sink and range are going...leaving us with a sink and cabinets on the other side... Moved the fridge and range into the dinning room so we still basically have a kitchen while I prepare the gas, water and electric, framing for new window over the new sink location.

Gas lines...ugh...Of course there was the typical headaches to be expected when your born to lose...shut off the gas at the meter and the gas company's shut off was leaking meaning I could not go forward...phone calls and waiting...and then the third degree of having to check all of my gas appliances before and after he concluded that their gas valve was failing and that they'd have to send a special guy out to replace it the next day....OK it finally got replaced and did my gas thing...this is a 1953 raised foundation house and here in Cali only iron pipe ( with no unions ) is allowed. So that means you have to start at one end and wrench away testing for leaks along the way or pay the price later of having to go backwards to the leak and reassemble...whew. 3/4" pipe to the stove and then 1/2" reroute for the dryer and out side barbecue... Did all of this 30 years ago and was never happy with how I did it so I did it right this time...
The gas lines cost me about 10 hours of my torturous crawling time under the house labor and maybe $100 in parts ( because I had a bunch of old plumbing fitting ) ..surely at least a $1200 job had I used a plumber... a crazy covid times note...I had to buy a few sticks of 1/2" pipe.. Home Depot Threads them if you ask at no charge...So I had the gal cut a 10" pipe down to the length I needed and grabbed a 4" length that was precut....Get to the register and the 10' pipe was @ $16.35 and the 4' pipe was $16.95 ...WTF? Oh hell no...cancel transaction...I go back and tell the gal OK I'm going to have you cut me a 6' piece out of a 10' pipe and have you thread both ends where you cut it leaving me with a 6' and 4' pipe...She looks at me and says we have 4' and 6' pipes already precut...I know and it will cost me over $35...This way it's $16.35. She smiles and says isn't it crazy ...no rhyme or reason to it. I was fine with having an extra 6' piece of pipe ...can always use it for something...turned out I was able to use the 6' to extend the gas to the stove temporarily till it's time to install the cabinets on that side of the kitchen....Perfect.

Today rerouting the drain system for the washing machine and setting up the in wall plumbing box for the washer that will be connected to Pex A plumbing system..Maybe get to the new pex for the small bath and toilet next to the kitchen and laundry room...

Multiple Pex systems out there to choose from and I have concluded although the most expensive pex system...The Pex A system is worth the investment ...better flow, flexibility and once you have the MIlwaukee expansion tool, way easier and better way of connecting the lines and fittings... I'm kind of excited doing this pex stuff...Picked up the tool for $320 off of offerup. I'm justifying this by the fact that I can sell it easily for what I paid for it ( If I want to ) and $320 is about what it would cost to have a plumber out for a few hours...I'll save thousands doing the plumbing myself...

Gotta say plumbing is a love hate thing for me it's always a Mutha to do but the results are pretty cool...I started doing steel pipe @ 12 years old at my Uncles plating shop...finally learned how to do copper in my 30's and thought I'd died and gone to heaven....and now this Pex stuff WOW pretty cool...I was really hesitant about the stuff but I'm sold on it now.....


Oops just looked at the time and I gotta get to Home Depot and get busy... I'll stop in in a week or so with some pics...if I live to tell the tale....

 

[jimmys69]

Sounds like are having fun doing what I do for a living!

At least Home Depot in your state still threads gas pipe. They stopped doing it in Denver stores. I just ran 40' in a basement to kitchen and gas grill with those over-priced shorter lengths. I ran another 25' with flex because I couldn't find proper fittings to finish. 3 Home Depot and 2 Lowes to find a friggen 3/4" tee!

Fell free to hit me up if you have any questions down the road. I do mostly bathroom remodels but it's all the same...

Cheers man!

 

[TalismanRich]

Good luck with your remodel. It's been 20 years since I redid the kitchen. Had to redo the main bath 2 years ago. The past couple of weeks have been spent painting outside while things were still warm enough, and between the days of showers. I'm 95% done with what I can do myself, and the last 5% is actually the front doors, which I can do anytime now that the storm doors are finished and back up. They just need a touch up second coat, and I'm done.

.... well there is that ceiling that had water damage from a leak some years back.... Nah, it can wait until after Christmas. I need to get in some golfing while I can.

 

[gecko zzed]

Have fun. We have just gone through a kitchen remodel ourselves. After having lived with the kitchen for about 35 yeats, it was geting very tired.

Out place was built in 1920, and had been added to and subtracted from in bits and pieces since then. We discovered that walls were not vertical, nor did they go in a straight line. So there was a lot of work involved in sorting that out. We're just about finished now, with just the painting to go.

It was worth the tramua and the expense!

 

[TAE]

Mr Murphy and his damn law are in full effect. LOL forgot to mention when I went to shut off the gas at the main, the meter shut off valve was leaking a little into the house even though it was completely shut off...DAMN! So I call the gas company and they send a guy out...holy cover their ass in these litigious times..Sorry sir the valve is bad and I can't replace it because it is connected to an old system and we have a special crew that replaces these..I'll schedule...well he was actually pretty cool and after checking every gas fixture in my house was willing to leave the gas on AND gave a me a little cap I could put in between the coupling where the gas companies line attached to mine so I could circumvent the leak and do my thing...Next day a tech comes out and wham bam put a new shut off at the meter and cleaned up the 30 year old cluster mess that was down there...( My meter is in a compartment at the front of my lawn by the street) .. Yesterday .... I was tying into an old Galvanize 2" drain and bringing the washing machine drain over to it for better draining... Good times making 4 Galvanized steel pipe cuts in a wall....then knawing, sawing, drilling away wood studs to route the abs drain pipe....will abandon the existing drain and copper supply for the new drain and pex A set up ...Have the water turned off right now and getting ready to go under the house to disconnect the copper where it meets the old galvanized and capping off for now...just decided I'd pop in here and have a cup of coffee before I begin the under house crawling fun...I'm good at procrastinating...OK I'm outta here...gotta stay away from the HR.com time sponge as best I can but I'm sure I'll need a few more coffee breaks over the next few weeks I know , I know POIDH...soon

 

[60's guy]

Wow Tom! It certainly appears that your kitchen remodel project is a major project. Especially the plumbing. All the more reason to photograph the plumbing before you wall it in.
Good luck with your project.

 

[TAE]

OK here's a link to a file on the google where I'm keeping pictures ....Mostly demo pics but it is getting real....

I've torn out half the kitchen leaving the sink area usable...living without a sink stinks... extended the gas line into the dining room so we can use the stove...cough cough carbon monoxiding us to death...( not that much Co2 , big open area and it's clean burning natural gas...)
Moved the gas lines, cleaned up the the clothes dryer line and moved the barbecue line to a more appropriate outlet area.
R&R'd the washing machine plumbing and got my first taste of using Pex A ( A stands for AWESOME!) while there in the wall I refreshed the electrical providing a nice ground to the cast iron drain pipe.
Removed a big 4 x 8 x 10' beam and the 5 cement piers that supported it under the house ...can you say overkill 30 years ago when I put it there to support the tile floor...going LVT now so no need for it and it took up a lot of space in an already tight crawlspace...damn beam kicked my ass...

Speaking of beams you'll see a big one in the ceiling which I am hoping to move up into the attic....It is structural but overkill for it's purpose ( Holding up one side of (6) 13' long 2 x 6's that the plaster ceiling is hung to) just not that much weight ....have a framer buddy coming over today to bless what I am planning on doing...

This week is getting serious week ....hoping to get the beam moved up, a temporary sink and counter set up in the dinning room, tear out the remaining kitchen, install all electrical receptacles for the counters, dishwasher, garbage disposal, refer, stove and microwave,(whew!) and necessary plumbing, install a pocket door, remove the two windows over the existing sink and frame in, lathe and scratch coat. Reframe an area where a new window is going. Hopefully get some help with the door and beam...Long week..want to be able to call in the drywall dude for next week and get the cabinets and tops in the following week...a bit ambitious but ya gotta have goals. Kind of therapeutic writing this all out and realizing I'm crazy thinking I am going to get this all done in two weeks A guy can dream Btw did I mention I LOVE PEX A...so awesome!

 

[TalismanRich]

Looks like too damn much trouble to me! Plus, I didn't see any Roxul or MLV for the soundproofing!!!

Carry on........

 

[TAE]

Whew! Update...trying to stay way from here...Pictures are being added to the google photo file HERE

I'm probably two weeks behind my estimated time to do this but heading towards the finish line...

Wow moved the big ass 13' 4x10 long beam supporting another 4 x 10 beam up into the ceiling so no mo beam!...

did some of my first "pex" A LOVE IT!

Cut out a 36 x 48" hole in the stucco and framing for the new kitchen sink window...

tore out and installed the laundry room window

Several electrical outlet and switch mod relocations

Installed the framework and framing for the pocket door...FYI PLUMB AND LEVEL are critical at all points involved

All of the above all by myself cept for some muscle help with that big as beam

I am bringing in a drywall crew...decided we are going to remove all of the plaster ceiling and fluffy insulation above it.. ( just too many holes and from the Beam, electrical etc and old cracks that always came back) Had a choice to just sheet over with 1/4" but when my drywaller told me he'd prefer to tear it out and only charge me an extra $600 ( plus new insulation ) I said go for it... It comes down Thursday

Today I'll be doing more electrical and plumbing prep

Going Tankless and I just received that beast WOW so fricking heavy Takagi H3 $845 plus @ $150 in parts to install it... also doing a recirc pump in the coolest of fashions...I'll expound further later...OK got get a cup of Joe for a consult I'm doing at 7, make a few bucks talking about the quartz surfacing industry then back to the grind stone...Woo hoo another day in Paradise!

 

[TAE]

Guess from here on I'll keep it all here...

Wrote this last Thursday..

So nearing in on 30 days in the hole and shit is getting real today... Unlike a typical kitchen remodel where you are shit out of luck as far as having a kitchen to use during the remodel, because I'm in control and been to a few kitchen remodel rodeos before (100's) I took the EZ does it route cause I could. Because the kitchen is a full revamp with the sink, stove and fridge all going in completely different locations, I was able to leave the sink in and functioning all the way to now... Moved the fridge and stove (just added a long gas line to it) at the beginning into the dinning room area. So though definitely in disarray and dust n shit everywhere we have not been without any of these modern conveniences. Today my drywall guy is tearing down the old plaster ceilings in both the kitchen and dinning room areas. Big ass mess cause there's 68 years of re roofs shit and a shit ton of sprayed insulation up there...plus the plaster and plaster board itself. It will take him most of the day and then Tomco is back at it...They come back Monday to start hanging drywall...
My to do's before Monday morning ...Yikes!

• Decommission current kitchen sink, tear out kitchen sink cabinet areas and paneling
• Remove old sink plumbing and cap off
• Plumb angle stops for Kitchen sink, Bathroom sink and water bib for the refrigerator
• Run new Kitchen sink drain to tie into where the old sink drained to.
• Layout and run the 6" spot Led ( thin ones, not canned) light wiring for both rooms
• relocate and run two ac/ heater vents
• Pressure wash / acid wash the brick fireplace
• Hopefully set up a temporary sink and top
• 5 hour practice with the band on Sunday...woo hoo! Shit Howdy!

And here's where I am today...ouch!

Hmmm? Things didn't go quite as well as planned...I started with the can lights in the list and I'm still there. The only other thing I got done was something not on the list. Attaching some 1 x 6 slats that were laying on top of the ceiling joist that were meant to stabilize / interconnect all of the 14' long joist..Back in 1953. It must of been beer 30 and they forgot to attach them just laying up there doing nothing for 68 years. Man those 14 footers were wobbly. I pocket drilled holes in the 2 x 6 ceiling joist and screwed up into the 1 x 6's and tied the end of the first 1 x 6 into that 4 x 10" beam I moved up into the attic previously...now all the 14 footers are rock solid...then the electrical Old Residential Electrical can make one want to scratch their head sometimes...So I had to tie into a quagmire of a junction box of which absorbed a good 4 hours of turning on and off breakers to figure out which circuits the feeds were on....Note to all do it yourselfers..those little pen sticks that you can use to see if a wire is "Hot" are great but don't necessarily actually mean you have 120 volts just that they are connected to the breaker box and a neutral will make the pen ring. So after totally being baffled I made my call to my electrician cousin who advised I get the multimeter out and toss the pen...Eureka! Anyways I have a helluva busy week ahead of me and realized early on THursday that I was not going to be ready for the Drywall on Monday ( Today) so I told them just plan on coming the following Monday and gave me a week to get a shit ton of stuff done...well and eat some Turkey on Thursday...I'll keep updating it seems each can of worms I open on this damn remodel has another can of worms inside it...kind of like those Russian boxes...a paradox indeed...

 

[Mick Doobie]

Those slats were probably just support boards so the goblins in your attic don't do a damn fool thing like step down through the plaster ceiling.

Speaking of damn fool things, when you run baseboard don't nail through into your pocket door, you'll never get 'er closed again. Weren't me, but i've seen it done.

 

[TAE]

Those slats were probably just support boards so the goblins in your attic don't do a damn fool thing like step down through the plaster ceiling.

Speaking of damn fool things, when you run baseboard don't nail through into your pocket door, you'll never get 'er closed again. Weren't me, but i've seen it done.

Good tip Mick on the baseboard / pocket door Thanks! Now I just have to remember it So got all the can light connector boxes set...I bought the super slim lights ( no cans just a little box and a 1/2" thin 6" light with clips)....you just drill a 6" hole in the drywall wherever, connect to the box with the provided plugs push em up in and two little spring clips hold them in place...damn tricky... I'm taking pictures but they are all going into google photos

Looks like too damn much trouble to me! Plus, I didn't see any Roxul or MLV for the soundproofing!!!

Carry on........

BTW when we tore down the kitchen and dinning room plaster ceiling all that BS blown fiberglass came down with it...what a mess... Planning on using batts of Rockwool as opposed to fiberglass in the attic before the drywall goes in.

 

[TAE]

Those slats were probably just support boards so the goblins in your attic don't do a damn fool thing like step down through the plaster ceiling.

BTW my "Attic" is a source of real heartburn for me...In Cali back in the 50's they did Cedar "shake" roofs and rock roofs. Rock roofs have a very slight pitch. In my case a 1.25"/12 pitch. The highest crawling point ( there will be no walking) in my attic @ 15' from edge of house is @18". Keep in mind in 1953 they had forced air but AC didn't exist...Once I installed AC ( about 20 years ago) I ran the new flex 8" and 6" flex ducting and man there is hardly room for a mouse to get around let alone a human...A real PITA...It is heaven with the ceilings opened up to run electrical and move ducting around...Had to fish a line @ 11' yesterday in the unopened part of the shack and man that was a hassle...but done and done...Crawl space under the house is mostly @ 18" gets a little tighter in spots. Have a nice 50' long run all 18" high that runs the length of the house..That's where the main PEX feed will run. For the short term only the kitchen, laundry and small bath get converted...will install the tankless and all the rest of the house when the the kitchen is completed. Almost ready for the drywall starting Monday...whew! A ton of work and the electrical was intense @ 25+ receptacles and light switches, 15 slim can light boxes and a new 20 Amp circuit for the the can lights and a couple of designated 20 amp receptacles ( most are 14 gauge / 15 amp in the house) for the heavy load needs ( Microwave / Disposer etc). On Monday I had the drywall guy out patching a damaged area in our master bedroom...he ended up tearing out about 40 sf of ceiling and reinstalling ...when he did this he disconnected a light fixture and taped the wires inside together as they had been when he took it out. No problem at the time....a few hours later I am working on a light switch box that is for the porch light. Mind you I am working on a swith taht is not connected to anything. I have the light wires wire nutted together with the light on. All of a sudden it flickers and goes off..WTF? I double check the wire nutted wires..nope they are rock solid...I realize that lights in the office, bedroom, hallway, and master bath are all dead...check the breaker...not tripped...Hmmm there is a junction box up in the attic in a dormer that is a total pain to get to..right above the switch I was working on...again the wires I was touching were not connected to anything yet...I don't know maybe when I pulled them...I chased this ghost for almost 3 hours to no avail..then I thought about that light fixture the drywaller had messed with....I went in an pulled down the wires and bam the lights came on. I did use a few construction worker frustration words and then wire nutted the half ass taped wires together ...The torture never stops. The door closes on electrical this morning, some ducting mods and hopefully get close to wrapping up the plumbing today tomorrow. Drywall dudes will install insulation on Monday then start the sheet rock Tuesday..Cabinets the following week...getting close.

 

[TalismanRich]

To think someone half-assed some work... that's hard to believe!
I've heard some real horror stories. You have to wonder what some people are thinking when they do this stuff.

 

[TAE]

well ducting took a little longer than expected.. always something...decided to wait on finishing the electrical till today and went for tearing out a little more of the countertop area I have left that is on the side of the kitchen where the still functioning sink is...40 days in an we have had a full functioning kitchen during the whole remodel...That will end temporarily today or tomorrow when I pull the final cabinet that supports the sink out..2 back splash receptacles there to install, the water box for the fridge and capping off the plumbing that was there.......Getting close to cabinet and countertop install hopefully mid week next week...going to be cool...Another busy day fricking beautiful Sunday here in Cali...Gotta say kicking this kitchens ass mostly by myself at 68 is leaving me feeling pretty good and accomplished...Tearing out that 5' section of tile countertop / backsplash and cabinet yesterday was a real flash back to 22 years ago when I did it for a living. Some tools have really improved...these diablo carbide tipped sawzall blades are beastly...and the new style spade bits with the little screw tip... HOLY shit what a game changer using them with these cool battery powered impact drivers... they just pull through any wood beam like butter...you don't hardly need to push they just pull through till the tip gets to the other side then you have to push AMAZING and Tough as shit..hit nails and they aren't toast..

 

[Mick Doobie]

My house was built '63. We bought it about '94. Apparently there were cracks in the living room/dining room ceiling. Someone prior to our purchase had the bright idea to get one of those texture rollers and roll texture the ceiling(s) to "fix the cracks". You could see the roller directional marks/patterns. Not very attractive. Nicely painted helped, but otherwise lived with it for years. It's a split level/tri level home, that level is one story. Tearing out that ceiling would have been a mess, loose insulation above. The bonus would be I could demo the wall separating the kitchen, open it up and create one large area. Tearing out that wall without addressing the ceiling would not work well, kitchen ceiling is smooth plaster and doesn't appear the be on the exact same plane as the rest of the (textured) ceiling. Anyway...

I finally got ambitious. I scraped the (rock hard) textured ceiling, primarily to knocked anything off that could result in flies in the ointment so to speak, and skimmed the entire ceiling with drywall mud. 1st in one direction, which would result in chatter marks, and then 90 degrees in the other direction. Tight where ceiling meets wall so as not to involve the sand textured walls. Damn that was a heluva lot of work. Skimming isn't exactly my forte, but with less sanding than I expected it turned out nice. All of the heat registers fit flush to the ceiling, nice inside corner at the top of the wall for painting....nice smooth ceiling really made a difference aesthetically. Tearing out the ceiling would in some ways be a better option, but a heluva mess. Lord knows what's up there.

I had to tear out/replace some soffit several years ago. Inside was a damn squirrel nest......and at one point felt something a bit more solid hit my shoulder and fall down to the ground. A solid white looked to be mummified squirrel. I reckon I might have closed his ass up in there when I had to replace some fascia squirrels had damaged (twice!) getting into the attic. I had replaced some damaged where squirrels sat in the gutter and chewed through, put some metal flashing there. I hadn't been out in the backyard the following winter. Springtime the weather broke and was out back assessing garden, etc....look up and there's a hole on the gable end of the house at the return. Bastard squirrel had his head poked out of the hole watching me as if I was ruining his peaceful morning. Oh man, it was so on after that, messed with the wrong guy.

Anyway, i'm rambling. Sounds like you have a handle on it. Can't finish off the post without possibly a little of something that might be helpful. Don't let the granite guys caulk where the granite meets a painted wall/surface. They like to use that clear silicone sealant/adhesive, to which paint will not bond. Seems an insignificant detail until the wife picks out a nice color and someone (big daddy?) attempts to paint.

 

[TAE]

35 years ago when we bought the shack I tore out a wall and doorway which really opened up the dinning room living room area. Because part of that wall was a bearing wall I had to do a beam. In this rendition I was hoping I could scoot it up above the ceiling like I had with the 10 x 4 beam going into the kitchen...Nope it stays..I could do it but waaaaay too much trouble so onward...Man electrical kicked my ass yesterday and when I was crawling under the house when I turned around in the tight space things started spinning like I was drunk...me thinks inner ear infection...I muscled through but I was delirious and wasn't feeling to hot...fast forward to the My Corona thread.

 

[TAE]

Yep had to tell the drywall guys ALTO on starting today...going to be a long 10 days...hopefully only 10 days...

 

[TAE]

Wow...so every morning since Monday I thought I was going to get up and get ahead of the drywall guys so everything was absolutely ready when they come back...maybe next week...and every day I got about as far picking something up and staring at shit and going back under the covers..This Covid whooped my energizer bunny ass...Today...Finally I'M BACK! I kicked some construction ass today. got several things done and ripped out the kitchen sink area. So for the first time since I started demo 45 plus days ago we are without a kitchen sink...Hoping that I will be able to resolve that tomorrow with a temporary set up but it is going to require a bit of under the house plumbing / crawling.... ugh....Pretty much all ready to do it though...will have to run hot n cold lines to the bath and new kitchen sink area, Run the drain for the kitchen sink and cut out the old cast iron drains and 1/2" galvanized water lines....oh yeah and set up and plumb the temp Kitchen sink...Have a 36" kitchen base cabinet, a 60" piece of Corian for a temp top and a 32" double bowl stainless sink... I'll probably reconnect the reverse osmosis to so we have drinking water...good times. A smidge more electrical and I'm ready for the drywall.

Power washed the 68 year old used brick fireplace last Saturday right before I started feeling shitty and before we realized we were Covidacized....came out nice...amazing how much dirt and staining came off ..should have taken a picture of the drastic difference...major.

 

[TAE]

Well that didn't go as easy as I had hoped...I am one whooped ass mofo. Mistakes were made So old galvanized pipe is a PITA.... It all started out great and like a grinding wheel slowly, tortuously came to a painful stop...Shit Trying to tie into the old with the new ( Temporarily) ...bad idea I'm trying to get a 68 year old 3/4" elbow loose and the damn pipe bust off inside a beam... No worries I'll just go to the other side cut the pipes and use one of those pipe leak fixing things ya know with the rubber gaskets that cinch down on the pipe... Well it worked...for a day...So hell no it wasn't done on Sunday by the time I got the main feed 3/4 Pex attached to the repair fitting and ran to the kitchen it was late so I capped it off..We had water for half the house...yesterday I went down and thought no sweat a few hours and I'll be done...6 hours later...ugh. Then I turn the water on...Yay no leaks! So I start getting ready to run the kitchen sink draing ABS I look down into the area where I have cut a hole in the floor to access and I see a river of water heading south.....That leak connector had popped off.....SHIT! Turn off the water and just stare at this wet fricking mess...I had purchased some expensive metal pipe leak fixers but ised the PVC ones I had because I was sure they were adequate ( not so much ) weird they worked for the first night then when I re-energized after getting the full PEX a run done the damn thing pops off... So I approached from another crawl space laid a sheet of wood over the mud, took off the plastic and attached the metal ones ( I hope they fricking hold) so far so good... Through some plastic down in the mud where I had to do the drain and completed it....Long day at the ranch...Today is cruising do some paperwork for business and then get the temporary kitchen and Reverse osmosis water set up...some electrical loose ends... Onward!