Starting From scratch - No Idea - Very Keen

[JimmyJimbo]

Hey everyone,

Firstly I'd like to say thanks for all the wonderful information you all share. I have been reading and reading, its fantastic!

Ok I have just got my hands on a computer, its a HP pavilion 1.8gHz and I gave it 512RAM and a 320Gb HD. It isn't the most powerful computer but it was free and fingers crossed with do the job. Now my house mates and I would dearly love to record our own music. We have a tiny garage which we are in the process of cleaning and converting into our studio.

What I have no idea about is what hardware we need to do the recording, apart from the obvious mic's etc. I have my eye on a setup that would include a Behringer Eurorack UB1204FX-PRO Mixer with Multi FX working with a BEHRINGER F-CONTROL AUDIO FCA202. To the best of our knowledge, which I admit is very limited, we wish to record each track (guitar/vocal/drums/bass etc) and then put it all together with some software.

We are under the assumption that the Guitar will go from the guitar amp (or straight) into the mixer then from the mixer to the interface. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Jimmy

 

[XLR]

We are under the assumption that the Guitar will go from the guitar amp (or straight) into the mixer then from the mixer to the interface.

For guitar, a mic on the amp's speaker will usually sound better than going direct. Bass often sounds good going direct though.

For mic's, an SM57 or two and a pair of MSH omnis would be a good start.

 

[ssscientist]

I have my eye on a setup that would include a Behringer Eurorack UB1204FX-PRO Mixer with Multi FX working with a BEHRINGER F-CONTROL AUDIO FCA202. To the best of our knowledge, which I admit is very limited, we wish to record each track (guitar/vocal/drums/bass etc) and then put it all together with some software.

Behringer make quality stuff and is a good brand to start with. In addition to the two pieces already on your shopping list you will need to add monitor speakers and software.

Here's a link to some monitors. Not great speakers but they are powered, meaning no amplifier is needed to use them. Just plug the mixer monitor outputs into them and go.

http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--MDOSP3

I also recommend REAPER as your software. It's professional level software at a very good price and you have a 30 day trial period from download to pay the $40 shareware fee.

http://reaper.fm/download.php

Oh yeah. The 'MSH' microphones referred to above can be found here ---

http://www.naiant.com/studiostore/microphones.html
.

 

[Gandalf]

Behringer make quality stuff and is a good brand to start with.

.

There are many many people on here that would disagree......

Just do a search for Behringer and read the posts...

 

[mikemorgan]

I think you should spend your next dime on a really nice interface and skip the mixer altogether. Get something like the Focusrite OctoPre 8, which gives you multiple pre-amps, simultaneous IO, monitor control. If your convinced you need a mixer, maybe a firewire device like the Tascam or even the Alesis will have better pre-amps.

If I was starting from scratch and knew what I know now, I think I'd look for an all-in-one solution with maybe a control surface for staying in-the-box. Look at the Korg D888 and the Zoom HD16CD for instance.

 

[ssscientist]

There are many many people on here that would disagree....

And I'm not one of them.

Behringer is cheap, cheerful and durable --- everything I've used of theirs, that is.

There are alternatives at the lower end of the price spectrum - Peavey, Samson, Yamaha, etc - but they have an advantage over Behringer only on a case-by-case basis.


.

 

[JimmyJimbo]

This Kind of Setup?

I was thinking of something like this? Your info is excellent and thanks for pointing out what I had left out. For monitors I have a very good AMP and speakers from a surround sound/home threatre. I'm pretty confused about the whole need for pre-amps and if the mixer is working as a pre-amp or something like that, I'm really not sure. I have tried to include a picture that shows what I am trying to do. Please correct me if this is incorrect or it is not a good idea.

Thanks,
Jimmy

 

[XLR]

The signal routing diagram is OK. Well, except I wouldn't plug the guitar directly into the mixer for the reason I said before.

...I'm pretty confused about the whole need for pre-amps and if the mixer is working as a pre-amp or something like that, I'm really not sure.

The mixer you listed has four built-in preamps. Mic's need preamps to boost their output up to line level. A mic is connected with a cable that goes to one of the four XLR jacks at the upper left corner of the mixer. And you need a mic that has a balanced output, not a computer mic. The microphone forum has stickies w/ lots of info on types of mic's.

Read Tweakhead's guide about signal routing and mic's.

 

[JimmyJimbo]

Invisible Mic Preamps?

First I would like to thank XLR for all your help. I believe I am close to making a purchase. However I am just not sure about the built in preamps vs. invisible mic preamps. Are they just different names for the same thing or are they totally different.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jimmy

 

[XLR]

Invisible... Do you mean "transparent"? The pre's in the Behri mixer will be OK for anything but a really quiet source like a classical guitar from 6 ft away in a concert hall. Like most budget preamps they have audible hiss when you use a lot of gain. Stand-alone pre's like the M-Audio DMP3 will give you a cleaner signal if you want to spend a bit more.

You may find that you don't need the digital effects in the mixer you listed. Better generally to record without effects, then add them with plugins in your multitrack software. Reaper, for instance, comes with 50 or so plugins of very high quality.

 

[JimmyJimbo]

No FX?

So in theory a non-FX mixer would be a cheaper buy and seeing as I am definitely no expert it would be wise to stick to simple tools first to get the feel for it? The reason I asked about invisible preamps is some of the Behringer Products mention them for example the "EURORACK MX1804X" has "The compact MX1804X offers six mono channels with many of the same professional features as the MX3242X, including INVISIBLE MIC PREAMPS, inserts, 3".

I see your point about the classical guitar in the hall and that is definitely not what I am trying to do. I am considering something a little less expensive like the Behringer Eurorack UB802 Mixing Console.

Thanks again XLR

Regards Jimmy

 

[rayc]

1st of all DON'T SCRATCH - you'll only make it worse!
I have had similar experience to sscientist.
Some Behri stuff is berry good.
Some pres claim invisiblity/no noise other make a virtue of their colouration. For your purposes you should actually LISTEN to some and decide what suits your needs AND budget.
Me, I LOVE the pres built into my Yamaha MT100 4 track (fairly quiet & not complicated), I'm reasonably happy with my Bluetube pre (deliberate warmth/colouration) and the Behri MIC 100 (I think) is OK for certain mics & awful for others.

 

[andyhix]

If you can afford this, or something like it, get it. You would be able to record up to 8 mic tracks simultaneously (maybe less if your computer bogs down) as it has 8 built in preamps and you would definitely not need a mixer at all.

http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--PRSFIREPOD

I would hazard a guess that this is the most popular interface on this board, or at least close to it.

If your computer doesn't have firewire, very cheap firewire cards can be found online. ($10-20)

 

[legionserial]

As for software, give Reaper a try, several versions of it are free.

 

[JimmyJimbo]

Yeah unfortunately the PreSonus Firepod is definitely in the too expensive category. I am really only looking to spend about 300-400 (to include everything to get the sound to computer) for everything. I know this isn't much but being a uni student (aka uni bum) I don't have alot of cash to throw around.

I am very very keen but am just unable to splurge and spend that kind of money. My mates and I see ourselves as the next 'big thing' ha ha as I'm sure everyone does and really just want to lay down to tasty tracks that will sound good enough to fool some people into thinking we are actually good.

So atm my vision of a set up includes a Behr interface and mixer. If someone can suggest something in the price bracket 300-400ish which would do a better job please feel free to throw in your two cents.

I am holding off buying in the hope that I will obtain some knowledge allowing for me to purchase and not be disappointed, as this is my greatest fear atm.

Any help is always appreciated,
Jiimmy

 

[technominds]

I think the firepod is a brilliant idea.

As a Behringer user, I will give you some good advice. If your ever going to buy a mixer that you want to keep longer than a year or so, dont make it a behringer mixer. They have some great products but their mixers die very fast.. I have a 24 channel mixer which was ripped directly from Mackie (and more expensive company) and even that is losing its faders, and pots ect.

The firepod would mean you wouldnt need a mixer, it also means your all set for the future in recording.. you wont need another interface for a long long time.. and you can also record a full drum kit if you want to.

If you go for two low-end behringer products you are solving the short-term problem but you WILL end up spending that $400 again in a years time to replace them or to get something with more inputs or better pre's.

Im certainly not one to be against all behringer products as I have 5 behringer products in my studio, but if I had money to replace them I would without any doubt!

Edit: If you look on ebay, youle find a second hand firepod and have some money to spare!

Edit again: It looks as though the Firepod also comes with Cubase LE, which would be a great start on the software front also

 

[XLR]

...The reason I asked about invisible preamps is some of the Behringer Products mention them for example the "EURORACK MX1804X" has "The compact MX1804X offers six mono channels with many of the same professional features as the MX3242X, including INVISIBLE MIC PREAMPS, inserts, 3".

It's just Berhi's own marketing hype.

 

[andyhix]

Yeah unfortunately the PreSonus Firepod is definitely in the too expensive category. I am really only looking to spend about 300-400 (to include everything to get the sound to computer) for everything.

Well, then I'd say your options are to find the cheapest stereo interface you can get and the cheapest mixer you can find.

The downside with that is to record drums, for instance, you will have to mix all your drum mics perfectly before/during tracking because they will be summed to a stereo track on your computer. You wouldn't be able to, say, turn up the snare mic, or EQ just the kick drum after the fact. All mixing will have to be done to the stereo drum track as a whole. In some respects, this might be a good thing, in that it will really force you to get a good sound from the onset, because you will know you can't "fix it in the mix."

You should be able to find a stereo interface for <$100 and a mixer for even less.

 

[Trell Blaze]

A firebox (basically a smaller/cheaper version of the firepod) will cost u around 400bucks but then you'd have no room for mics.

400 dollar budget is going to be tough considering that even your low level competition these days is pretty decent (in terms of sound quality...not necessarily musicianship).

 

[JimmyJimbo]

Two Pres??

I have been reading the reviews for the FirePod and it seems that only the first two inputs have pres and the other six do not. I am not sure if this correct as few of the reviews have said this. Not sure if this is a big deal but I'd like to know what I'm buying and if it really has everything it claims to. However even though I'm not sure about the pres I am seriously considering the FirePod as it seems to be the complete package.

Thanks for all the responses,
Jimmy