SM58 Beta on hi-hats?

[tigerflystudio]

Hi folks,
I need to add (overdub) some 'real' hi-hats to a drum track I made recently (via midi) because the midi hi-hats sound unrealistic / plain crap.

I already own the hi-hat cymbals & stand etc., so I'm wanting to overdub the hats using a Shure SM58 Beta to record them. (I'll then remove the midi hat from the song).

Do you guys have any thoughts / experience of using a SM58 Beta for hats? Would it be better or worse than an 'normal SM58? Or the std. SM57? Would I be better off using my Rode NT2?

Basically, I don't want to have to buy an SM57 so am wondering if the SM58B will do a decent job?

 

[saads]

In my opinion Hi Hats will sound better with a condensor microphone. So i'd go with the NT2 if those are the options.

 

[tigerflystudio]

So you think the Rode NT2 is better than the SM57 or 58 for the hi-hats? Just DI'd (with phantom) to multi-track? Worth using the SM58B too? Any advice on mic positioning?

 

[saads]

I do think so, I say that because generally condensors will give you a brighter sound than dynamic mics when it comes to hats and cymbals. But you can use both, the SM58b and the Rode, and decide for yourself. As for placement, i would place it 3,4 inches above the hi hat, pointed down and away from the snare, but that's because i record an entire drumset. In your case, it's just the hats, and bleed is not a concern, so you can really let loose. Infact, you could put both mics up. But if you don't want to experiment and want to get it done with, use the Rode, put it above the hats, a few inches, and press record.

 

[RAMI]

Here's an idea.

If you own the mics you're talking about, why not plug them in and try them. I know, it sounds like an absolutely crazy thing to do, compared to asking a bunch of strangers who have no idea how your hi-hats sound in the room you're recording them in.

But, just for the hell of it, why don't you plug in the different mics you have, press record, and then DECIDE FOR YOURSELF which sounds better??? I know, it's crazy.

As far as mic placement...how about pointing the mic at the thi-hats and then move it around until you get the sound you like. Again, I know it's a crazy thing to do, compared to asking others to tell you what they'd do with your equipment. But, hey....it's the Holiday season. Go a little nuts.

 

[NYMorningstar]

But, just for the hell of it, why don't you plug in the different mics you have, press record, and then DECIDE FOR YOURSELF which sounds better??? I know, it's crazy.

....it's the Holiday season. Go a little nuts.

Is that the new scientific method I've been hearing about? So true, so true but don't forget the hand soap

 

[RAMI]

Is that the new scientific method I've been hearing about? So true, so true but don't forget the hand soap

Hehe.....

I mean, seriously, we're talking about micing a frickin' hi-hat. How much discussion does one expect this to generate.

 

[saads]

He probably doesn't usually record drums, and was just looking for some advice. Isn't that what most of us are here for anyway.

 

[RAMI]

He probably doesn't usually record drums, and was just looking for some advice. Isn't that what most of us are here for anyway.

Which is why I gave him the best advice he can get:

If you own the mics you're talking about, why not plug them in and try them............

how about pointing the mic at the thi-hats and then move it around until you get the sound you like.

 

[Newbie-Doo]

He probably doesn't usually record drums, and was just looking for some advice. Isn't that what most of us are here for anyway.

Nah, most of us come here to berate dumb people.


jk

lol...

 

[tigerflystudio]

Rami, in response to your very negative post, I haven't 'just tried it' because I'm at work when I post on this forum (Lucky me!). And my drum kit is not set up permanently so I can't 'just try it' without a lot of set-up / take-down hassle. Hence, why I came to ask fellow forum'ers for their thoughts. But thanks for your amazing insight. I'll be sure to read your posts in future.

Saads.. thanks for your interjection. You are, of course, perfectly right. Thanks for your kind words and a reminder what this forum is here for - support / advice.

 

[The Cancers]

Hey,
we all have bad days. Rami's advice is pretty universally good (at least from what I've read), so don't write him off because of one post.
That being said, he is ultimately right about how you're gonna need to do this.

Regardless of what specific advice you get (and I'm not saying you should ignore it because any time you get advice on this sort of thing along with an explanation of the reasoning behind it, you're learning), you are gonna need to play around with the mics in the room to get the right sound.

My $.02 is that you ought to try to use the room you're in to your advantage. It's gonna take a bit of playing around, but try your best to get your final sound going in to sound as much like it is in the same space as the samples you used.
If they're really dry samples, you'll want to close mic, then add a little bit of maybe room verb to the whole kit to try and glue them together.
If the samples are more ambient, you'll need to put some distance on your mic and play around with the position a lot to try and get your room (or at least the part of it the mic is hearing) to sound as much like the room the samples were recorded in as possible.

And don't write off either mic for either application. Your room might sound horrible, but you might need some distance for the sound to bloom if you've got ambient samples. Well, try the dynamic out - it won't pick up as much of the sound of the room, but it will give you a bit of that feeling of distance.
Hell, you could even go with a combination of both mics, maybe the dynamic to close mic the hat and the Rode pointing out into the room to capture some major ambience. It really is just gonna take doing what your ears tell you to do.

Have fun with it!

 

[tigerflystudio]

thanks. Great advice. I adn't thought about matching the drum sample sound with the overdubs. Will experiment, as you say. Might even post up a link when done, see what ya'll think!

 

[saads]

No problem

Hey,

Hell, you could even go with a combination of both mics, maybe the dynamic to close mic the hat and the Rode pointing out into the room to capture some major ambience. It really is just gonna take doing what your ears tell you to do.

Have fun with it!

That is some good advice there, explains better what i was trying to say when i said use both. And if the song has both open and closed hi hat parts, you might want to try micing those parts differently too.