Singing review

Orson

Well-known member
Oh, I never got this. Whenever someone critiques someone else, there is one who says, “well why don’t YOU do it for us all to critique?”

That makes no sense. The critic can sound even worse, and it still wouldn’t matter. The performance of the critic isn’t going to change the validity of the point the critic made.

Also, vocaroo has bad quality, yes, but it doesn’t change the pitch of someone.
Be quiet Fritz or you will be the next canary. 😉
 

LazerBeakShiek

AKA Optimus Prime LEGO Vampire
huh? Grim can sing. He shared many recordings. I think the medium is poor and Nifer is probably not even using a proper microphone. Major contributing factors in process.

Test the dynamics of the medium yourself. Keep it to yourself and report back. I shared because I don't give a shit.
 

Orson

Well-known member
Although its good to make brutal assessments I dont believe that people who want to do something should be discouraged. It has happened to me in my life and I listened to those nahsayers when I should have told them to 'F O'. So I find it not a great thing to do.
 
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rob aylestone

Well-known member
When I was a teacher, I had a rule - not an establishment one, but I told every new batch of students I was not normal. I earned my living before I became a teacher and if they ever wanted an honest opinion, they could ask me what I thought, and I promised I'd tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Sometimes when asked, I'd even ask if they were certain - and if they said yes, I figures that with the age range, 16-22, then I'd give it to them straight. I treat forums exactly the same. If it's a recording forum, then I've recorded superb singers and I've recorded dire ones. I've worked with some who improved amazingly with hard work and effort, and others who got worse, not better. I got a facebook post from an ex-student the other day who back in 2002 I told couldn't sing. He thought he could and had picked up severe bad habits and I recommended a couple of singing teachers. If I had two choices - singer or not a singer, he would NOT have been a singer. 19 years later, he has wife, family and is a professional singer and entertainer - and he has a fine voice now. He did the lessons, unlearned bad habits and his tuning - which was awful, gradually improved as his 'ear' got better. I'd forgotten but he thanked me for telling him the truth all those years ago - because everyone else told him he was great, yet he struggled getting repeat gigs.
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On here, the same things happen. When we hear really awful singing, some people say it's not too bad, or pretty good, or a few rough edges. When the truth is it is horrible. One person saying not good, but everyone else saying not bad can wreck the point of asking. All we need to do is be honest. Critique is useful and you learn from it. if it's delivered in an honest way, it's positive. You can tell people bad news in a non-upsetting way. On one forum the reply from one person to "can I sing", was "No - you're shit". That I think is very destructive.

If you get one good or one bad comment - the person needs to ask at least one other person for corroboration, then do something. My pet hate are so called music teachers who know they have a lame duck and keep doing the lessons. That's evil.

I've tried to learn to fly three times. Two in fixed wing, one in rotary and in every case when I asked the instructor, despite paying huge amounts per lesson, they were honest. They told me to stop. I was working with one of the judges of the Brit version of Strictly Dancing on TV, and commented that I couldn't dance - he said "Daaaarling - everyone can dance, the question is just how well". After twenty minutes he told me I had wrecked his record and had the coordination of a pygmy shrew.
 

TAE

All you have is now
Seek the good and praise it is a good way to live...However the OP asked to be critiqued and that is what she got. I, like you listened to someone ( a buddy) when I was young that I respected about an idea I had and he laughed at me and told me I was crazy. 30 years later I told him what he said and how it stopped me from doing something that may have ended just as he said or possibly completely changed my course in life. But that his discouragement was enough to stop me from trying. He felt bad. We will never know how that would have worked out but we know I didn't try. It's not his fault it's mine. I chose to listen to him and fear of failure is what stopped me...that it would have been an exercise in futility. To be honest in retrospect I kick myself in the ass for not giving my self the chance. That same person totally changed my life in so many other ways though. He was a frickin risk taker and envelope pusher and because of his "the masses are assess" philosophy and ability to take risk for reward, my life story has some very cool adventures that would not have happened without him in my life. He passed about 12 years ago and I journey on and his spirit of adventure / risk still fuels my journey along with many others.

Music is not a competition and good is subjective however in this particular situation it seems the OP is truly auditorily handicapped and there is nothing in todays world that can fix that. As I posted earlier it is just a scientific fact that we humans have different levels of ability to identify pitch and vocally stay within that same tone. She asked we answered and though it is unlikely she is going to make it as a professional she is certainly good enough to have fun doing Karaoke and I hope she continues to hone her craft to the best of her ability if it brings her joy. I know playin and singin sure makes me happy and when people give me accolades all the better...It doesn't have to be perfect, it doesn't have to be pro to move people. But it generally does have to be really good to make a living at it...In other words in this case...don't quit your day job.
 

TAE

All you have is now
With regard to GT "Putting it out there" He does every time he post...Like me, there's a link to his music on Soundcloud.... a whole library of GT doing his wild thing in his signature...
 

CrowsofFritz

Flamingo!
With regard to GT "Putting it out there" He does every time he post...Like me, there's a link to his music on Soundcloud.... a whole library of GT doing his wild thing in his signature...
Same, and with regards to Vocaroo, it’s certainly not doing OP any favors, but it’s not hurting, either. It doesn’t change the pitch of her voice. If Paul McCartney sang through Vocaroo, it would still sound great.
 
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Orson

Well-known member
Look if you wanted to be a say a Welder tomorrow, you would need to have training possibly for years. If you tried to weld tomorrow without training I very much doubt I would sail in the ship you welded.

Point is nobody is 'good' without training or practice..........except those very lucky few. Most people arent the 'few' and to rip them to pieces for simply having a go is not a good thing. (Not saying anybody as).

There used to be a talent show in the UK in the 80's I think. One judge was a very successful record producer called Micky Most. His trademark was to be absolutely brutal to people. 'He' was well qualified. Did he do the right thing? I think he probably destroyed more than he created.

Equally there has to come a time when they need to realise for themselves they arent Freddie Mercury or Karen Carpenter.
 
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CrowsofFritz

Flamingo!
Look if wanted to be a say a Welder tomorrow, you would need to have training possibly for years. If you tried to weld tomorrow without training I very much doubt I would sail in the ship you welded.

Point is nobody is 'good' without training or practice..........except those very lucky few. Most people arent the 'few' and to rip them to pieces for simply having a go is not a good thing. (Not saying anybody as).

There used to be a talent show in the UK in the 80's I think. One judge was a very successful record producer called Micky Most. His trademark was to be absolutely brutal to people. 'He' was well qualified. Did he do the right thing? I think he probably destroyed more than he created.

Equally there has to come a time when they need to realise for themselves they arent Freddie Mercury or Karen Carpenter.
Finding the right style is also incredibly important. I can’t sing McCartney songs to save my life. I sing MY songs that best suit MY voice. The second example OP gave of her singing wasn’t too bad. She should hone in on that style.
 

Mickster

Well-known member
As has been stated many times...recently and in the past on this kind of thread.......not everyone can even HEAR when they're off key....so they can't really fix it...no matter what. Yes....on the spot....and in a moment of try after try.....they may be able to make a spot correction.......but will likely miss the target on the next try. And yes....this does not mean EVERYONE. Training helps many....but really has more of a polishing effect on a singer who has tempo issues and some tendencies to wander on pitch. It cannot correct actual tone deafness.....which is a real thing and based in the brain.

So...when posters in this thread ask if they can sing........they're not really asking if they're on pitch. They pretty much think they're on pitch and tempo. They're mostly asking if they have talent....as applied to a rating of how they measure up to known good singers. Like a blind person cannot see what you're talking about........a tone deaf person cannot hear what you're talking about. Singing off key and asking if the performance is good.....when the singer has already heard the off key track.....tells you that the person may not ever be able to hear his or her issues..........and that's not correctable for the most part.

My 2 cents worth of........don't answer the question.....if the answer cannot be heard.

Mick
 
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LazerBeakShiek

AKA Optimus Prime LEGO Vampire
There are rack units, like the VP-9000 or V Synth with vocal designer, that can improve any voice. Sing whatever to a Master BPM. Chose word length with footpedal, and change points, It fixes it up . You play your voice on a keyboard. Back in 2000 they were pretty awesome. Now something like melodyne might do something similar, but not quite. The ability to look ahead makes it more natural than vocoded.

The VP9000 was $6000+ , very experimental unit. It has 6 operator channels. So on the one voice, its natural. Then you can use the second to clip in prerecorded professional sung vowel sounds( vowel voice samples) on held notes. Instant Christina Agularia.
 
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TAE

All you have is now
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TAE

All you have is now
I don't want to go crazy on anyone...but many years ago before the video below was recorded ...I saw Heart open for Jefferson Starship and ya know what? That little girl left me with my jaw on the floor I have never heard a woman sing so incredibly awesome...poor Grace Slick had to follow her...not even in the same class...that girl could sing....

 

LazerBeakShiek

AKA Optimus Prime LEGO Vampire
Isn't that Bob Barker's price is right microphone? Must have been left on the stage from a game show.

An Omni ? Really?
 

TalismanRich

Well-known member
TAE, I couldn't agree more. When I saw Heart, Ann was a pure powerhouse, and spot on every note! I never saw Jeff Airplane, but I heard a few live broadcasts, and Grace would hit a clam or two. I remember hearing a live broadcast of early Van Halen and Diamond Dave was off key a bunch. It was really kind of comical.

The last time I heard Crosby/Nash, they were flat amazing. It was back in the Wind On The Water days. Their voices just meshed. Its a shame that they're all pissed at each other.
 
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spantini

COO of me, inc.
TAE, I couldn't agree more. When I saw Heart, Ann was a pure powerhouse, and spot on every note! I never saw Jeff Airplane, but I heard a few live broadcasts, and Grace would hit a clam or two. I remember hearing a live broadcast of early Van Halen and Diamond Dave was off key a bunch. It was really kind of comical.

The last time I heard Crosby/Nash, they were flat amazing. It was back in the Wind On The Water days. Their voices just meshed. Its a shame that they're all pissed at each other.
I last saw Heart in '83 in Wash., D.C. (Maryland Capital Center) and Ann's performance was explosive. Pure power.
 
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grimtraveller

If only for a moment.....
Grim, show Nifer how its done. Sing a few lines ON Vocaroo
Even if I were to "show Nifer how its done" {which I think is really condescending to Nifer}, how does that help or solve Nifer's issue ?
Nifer needs to work on their voice for a while to determine whether or not they are indeed flogging a dead horse or whether they can actually see some improvement, in which case to put in more work to the next batch of improvement.
Its not possible to sound right
I'm probably the worst person you could have said that to because among my music collection are loads of vanity recordings from the late 60s and early 70s, mainly though not exclusively early Christian rock and the recording quality is little short of pitiful on many of them. The mixing is worse than mine {and that's saying something} and some of the playing is at best, ropey. That's the stuff that succeeds in remaining in time.
However, I love many of the songs and no matter how lousy the recordings, everyone that sings can sing. And I can hear it. I did have one album, I can't remember who it was by because I tossed it, the music was so inventive and off the wall and I really liked it but I couldn't listen to it because the vocalist was.....well, think seals and walruses at war with each other with polar bears cheering and pandas passing wind. He was so sharp and the timbre of his voice had my nerves crawling all over the place and he couldn't sing. A pity really. If he could it would have been an amazing record from this totally unknown bunch.
I agree GT. Lob it out and lets hear it. No excuses cus you got yourself in this corner nobody else
I'm not in any corner. Nifer asked for opinions. Nifer got opinions. I could be the worst singer on this side of the planet or I could be unique and amazing ~ it would make not one iota of difference to my current opinion.
I couldn't build a sofa but I sure know when one is comfortable to me and if I was asked to rate one by a manufacturer and I thought it was uncomfortable, I'd say so.
Bah bing !
 

grimtraveller

If only for a moment.....
I think the medium is poor and Nifer is probably not even using a proper microphone. Major contributing factors in process
I don't think there is a mic or medium on the planet that can make an in-tune voice become one with pitch issues.
Although its good to make brutal assessments I dont believe that people who want to do something should be discouraged
I don't think it's good to make deliberately brutal assessments. If an assessment is seen as a brutal one when that wasn't the intention of the assessor, does that mean it was brutal ?
I agree with you about discouragement. In fact, if I remember rightly I prefaced my first post with something about that. And I don't think I've said a single thing that is intrinsically discouraging. I've pointed out that some serious work needs to be done. And why.
Point is nobody is 'good' without training or practice
I agree. However, singing is one of those few exceptions in which some people are quite good despite no training. I know I keep banging on about it but I think the ability to sing {ie in tune} is something that comes to most human beings. We are musical beings. Naturally, we all differ for a variety of reasons at different times as to how well we do this. If one can't find the natural aptitude to do it then that's a different story. Singing is a bit like running fast. Most people can do it but not everyone is going to be Usain Bolt or Valeriy Borzov. But the issue isn't whether or not everyone is going to be a Borzov or Bolt but whether there is some aptitude for running fast. You can train to get faster but not necessarily to get fast.
to rip them to pieces for simply having a go is not a good thing
I couldn't agree more. Remember though, there is a big difference between having a go and doing OK in the go you had and having a go but not really being able to in a way that will bring any pleasure to those hearing you.
There used to be a talent show in the UK in the 80's I think. One judge was a very successful record producer called Micky Most. His trademark was to be absolutely brutal to people. 'He' was well qualified. Did he do the right thing? I think he probably destroyed more than he created.
It was "New Faces" which started around 1974 or 75. I remember it because there were 3 judges that used to be regulars that were real bastards ~ Most was one, Tony Hatch was one and Katie Boyle was the other. Granted, some of the comedians and ventriloquists were pretty lame; whether it was nerves or sheer lameness, I can't say but quite a number got mercilessly treated. And the thing is, virtually all the singers that got slagged could sing. What they may not have had was 'star' quality.
Funny thing was, the 1976 winner of the grand final was a ventriloquist called Roger de Courcey and he went on to have a healthy career for a few years. I always thought he was lame. His dummy, Nookie bear, was never funny like Emu was funny and even as a teenager I could always see De Courcey's mouth moving !
 

LazerBeakShiek

AKA Optimus Prime LEGO Vampire
Even if I were to "show Nifer how its done" {which I think is really condescending to Nifer}, how does that help or solve Nifer's issue ?
Nifer needs to work on their voice

I'm not in any corner. Nifer asked for opinions. Nifer got opinions. I could be the worst singer on this side of the planet or I could be unique and amazing ~
Bah bing !
See, I thought you were hittin on her. Cause you said her name like 40 times..Just tryin to set you up with an 'in'. Couldve wow'd her with your spectacular Vocaroo ..
 

rob aylestone

Well-known member
Well Roger had (and still has) a nice bushy moustache that covers a few sins - but that Heart video is a clear (but well done) mime isn't it? Her magic mic that doesn't drop in level when she pulls away mid note, and of course the magic invisible drum mics?

I was actually a judge in the mid 90s for a cable TV talent show and modelled myself on Tony Hatch - but Tony was a composer and producer of some repute - like Micky Most and I'm sure Simon Cowell followed their lead. Sure, it was OTT, but that's the entire point of TV talent shows - build up the crap ones, put down the good ones and see what's left. I mean - they even give prospective turns bad advice, and then watch as they crucify themselves on live TV. Honesty but done sensationally not constructively.
 
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