Room mic at a venue.

[toadies]

I'm going to be recording a 3 bands this coming thursday. I have a few questions.

I am able to get a live feed from the mixing board but it will be a mono feed which will go to my dat machine.

I'm going to also use my DIGI001, with my computer.

I'm going to take the digital out of the dat and go to my digi001 and record to that also with 2 more room mics.

I have a pair of SM57 i was thinking of useing. unless there is a better solution i should think of doing at a later show? But for now i get to use SM57.

Where should i place the 2 mics in the club? its not very big. so i'm afaird the lead from the mixing board will be vocal heavy. which is why i want room mics.

reason i'm recording the dat and the digi001 at same time is for back up incase the digi001 goes to shit, (can't trust computers)

I was thinking of using a 4-track for the 2 mics but that means i have the sync them together later, thats alot of work.

thanks for any info.

 

[toadies]

am i in the right forum? i figure this forum was about mic placement and type of mic i should use?

 

[Track Rat]

Is the mixer on stage or is it out front? If it's out front I'd put high on a stand at the mixer pointing at the stage. You're right to worry about the send of the mixer being vocal heavy. In small venues, that's usually the case.

 

[toadies]

The mixer is out back like any other club. The speakers are mounted up on the wall above the band.

can i connect 2-3 mic cables together to make it longer? will it devolope noise

 

[Track Rat]

If they're in good condition it should be fine.

 

[Beezoboy]

Why don't you see if you can catch the sound by using the inserts as direct outs. Another option would be to see if who ever is running the mixer will set up some busses on his board for you and let you come out of them.

The way you are talking about just seems to hard to get a good recording.

Beez

 

[toadies]

Why don't you see if you can catch the sound by using the inserts as direct outs. Another option would be to see if who ever is running the mixer will set up some busses on his board for you and let you come out of them.

The way you are talking about just seems to hard to get a good recording.

Beez

so your saying room mics won't be worth using?

 

[toadies]

Well i did the show, i put 2 SM57 in a XY configuration out back. sounds good, very reverb to it.

also got 3 feeds and mix to taste with headphones. from aux3-4 and a vocal feed.

So now my next investment is some good room mics that can handle loud pressure volume? pair of condensor mics?

 

[toadies]

bump

 

[Beezoboy]

I think you shouldn't try to record a band with 2 direct feeds and room mics live. Whenever possible get at least kick, snare, bass, guitar(s), and vocals on seperate tracks. Then if you want to add room mics to try and mix in that would be fine.

Beez

 

[toadies]

I think you shouldn't try to record a band with 2 direct feeds and room mics live. Whenever possible get at least kick, snare, bass, guitar(s), and vocals on seperate tracks. Then if you want to add room mics to try and mix in that would be fine.

Beez

that is not always possible with peoples current setup at venues. I using there mixing board, not my own.

 

[ZPphreak]

That is your main weakness I'm afraid.
If you want a good sound without alot of verb and crowd noise then you are going to have to get the direct outputs of the channels. if that means using your own board then it may be necessary.. If the boards at the clubs that your bands usually play at have direct sends on the channels (if the board is worth a damn) then you are set (depending of course on how many channels you are going to need to record .. then you might have to bring your own board to mixdown the direct sends)..
If not, then like Beezoboy said, you should try to get the technician to set up some aux sends or some kind of stereo Bus configuration so that the mix is balanced before going into your recorder. A room mic may be a nice addition in mixdown but I'd reccomend trying to keep your plugs in.

You could always buy a shit load of DI boxes and split the signals befor they get to the Club's mixer. You might need to bring along a mixer of your own if you go that route even still. (lots of signals and not enough inputs on the recorders)

If you go with a pair of mics (any mics) in the room, you'll have nothing but a Hi-Tech Bootleg IMHO.

Take Care,

 

[toadies]

That is your main weakness I'm afraid.
If you want a good sound without alot of verb and crowd noise then you are going to have to get the direct outputs of the channels. if that means using your own board then it may be necessary.. If the boards at the clubs that your bands usually play at have direct sends on the channels (if the board is worth a damn) then you are set (depending of course on how many channels you are going to need to record .. then you might have to bring your own board to mixdown the direct sends)..
If not, then like Beezoboy said, you should try to get the technician to set up some aux sends or some kind of stereo Bus configuration so that the mix is balanced before going into your recorder. A room mic may be a nice addition in mixdown but I'd reccomend trying to keep your plugs in.

You could always buy a shit load of DI boxes and split the signals befor they get to the Club's mixer. You might need to bring along a mixer of your own if you go that route even still. (lots of signals and not enough inputs on the recorders)

If you go with a pair of mics (any mics) in the room, you'll have nothing but a Hi-Tech Bootleg IMHO.

Take Care,

at 2 clubs i been to to record, they both did not want to mess with there configuration on giving me direct outs. one had a SoundCraft board, and another had a Allen & Heath, 2200?

I'm getting a line-mixer to solve my problem with the signal getting to hot.

But this is getting way to off-topic for the microphone section.
---------------------------
ALL I'M ASKING IS THAT IS THERE ANY GOOD MICS OUT THERE DESIGN FOR ROOM MICS THAT CAN HANDLE LOUD PRESSURE? BESIDE THE sm57 I'M CURRENTLY USING.

Btw the SM57 sounds better then i expected. did a XY right in front of the mixing board.

 

[FZfile]

You bet..........

"ALL I'M ASKING IS THAT IS THERE ANY GOOD MICS OUT THERE DESIGN FOR ROOM MICS THAT CAN HANDLE LOUD PRESSURE? BESIDE THE sm57 I'M CURRENTLY USING."

.....how much do you want to spend.

You could get acouple of matched Schoeps (spelling?????.....if you cant spell it you cant afford it.....and I cant) for a couple of grand.

Or the matched Rode NT5 set for like $300.

I have an NT3 the I use for live to mono on a Marantz cassette deck simlpy because it is a battery powered condenser.

Not terribly flat but it alows me to get some sound down with a minimum of equipment.

There are a lot of condensers that will do a great job but with most you have to phantom power them somehow.
I'm not sure if your DAT or Digi has phantom power (dual phantom for stereo) but that is potentially one (or 2) more piece of equipment which, in itself will require power.
A stereo phantom power supply that is battery powered is not cheap from what I understand.......but obviously since I'm using an NT3 to mono setup, I'm no expert.

I perfer light and quick though.

my 2 cents

-mike

 

[toadies]

will the NT5 handle loud pressure?

I do have phantom power.

 

[FZfile]

Unless your putting them up to the PA horns..

Rode Microphones NT-5

Packaged as a matched pair, with case, stand mount, and wind screen.

Acoustic Principle: Externally polarised single diaphragm condenser transducer

Capsule Size: 0.5” (13mm)

Active Electronics: JFET Impedance converter with bipolar output buffer

Directional Response: Cardioid

Frequency Response: 20Hz to 20kHz

Sensitivity: -38 dB re 1v/Pa ± 2 dB equivalent to 12mV/Pa where 1 Pa = 94dBSPL

Equivalent Noise: <16 dBSPL, (A-weighted per IEC268-15).

Maximum Output: +13.9 dBu @ 1% THD into 1k_

Dynamic Range: >128 dB

Maximum SPL: 143 dB @ 1% THD into 1k_

Signal to Noise: 78dB

Power Requirements: 4 mA, P48 Supply (38V–52V) 2 mA, P24 Supply (20V-26V) The microphone operates in accordance with the above specifications to a minimum of 18V. It will operate with some performance degradation below 18V.)

Should be plenty.

-mike