RNC or Behringer Tube compressor

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Mark Scheuerman

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Has anyone used the Behringer Tube compressor? I know there are a lot of you out there who like the RNC & hate anything Behringer but I can get a good deal on a new Behringer 1952. I am looking for a good compressor in this price range which does not color the sound. I need something clean for vocals. I will be going into a Mackie MDR so plug-ins are out.:rolleyes:
 
I've never heard the 'B', but would question the combination of 'does not color' and inexpensive 'tube'.
The RNC is a keeper, in all respects.
Happy hunting.:)
Wayne
 
O.k., time for the master himself to chime in... ;)

I have both units, the RNC and T1952 Tube Composer;

pro-T1952:
-Dual mono capability
-IEC power socket (no Walwart)
-'phat' sound with punch possible
-reasonably uncolored
-expander/gate section
-peak-limiter
-both XLR and TRS jack connectors, -10/+4 switches
-awesome looks with vu-meters

pro-RNC:
-Super Nice mode IS Supernice!
-very transparent sound, only pumps at extreme settings
-sounds expensive
-less crosstalk, less hiss

I use the RNC for vocals, ac. guitar and occasionally electric guitar (which is usually already handled by the Digitech Genesis 3's internal comp.)
I use the T1952 on my drumcomputer and sometimes on my synth to phat up things.

The RNC is better at making things seem louder, and dynamic range control than at 'phatting up'. It's more transparent, you don't really hear the unit working.
The T1952 can give punch and 'phat' very easilly, it's also pretty uncolored, but pumps more easily than RNC. It does marvels on my drumcomputer!

The tube circuit does nothing, but add high-end shizzle, nothing fancy really... it sure doesn't make things WARMER, besides your rack. ;)
 
I haven't used the B but the RNC really lives up to the hype. You can have a 12:1 ratio and 8dbs of reduction and barely notice it working.
 
Never used the TUBE either but will swear by the RNC! Only down-fall is the RNC is not fast enuff to be used as a Peak Limiter
whereas Beh's Composer Pro provides adequate capping.
 
By the way: the old MDX2100 is a bit faster than the composer pro. If the specs are correct on the new MDX2600 composer Pro-XL, that one is a tiny bit faster than even the old MDX 2100. The Tube composer, for all I know, is pretty much the same as the Composer Pro except for the added tube feature. So if you don't need the tube blend, you might as well take the Composer pro or the pro-XL. Never had an RNC for comparison, though. They're hard to get in Europe. Personally, I'd check out the Pro-XL. If it lives up to the specs, it's probably a better deal than the Tube composer. Better audio quality at a lower price. Doesn't sport the fake vintage cosmetics, though.
 
I love my RNC.

For transparent compression, in its price range, I don't think you can do better.
 
I too love my RNC.

I use a Studio Projects TB-1 tube mic for my vocals (I really, really love it too!) feeding into an M-Audio DMP3 which feeds into the RNC which then goes to my Korg D1600 multitrack digital recorder. As soon as the price goes down, I will get a Studio Projects VTB-1 preamp and then use the DMP3 with my Pa80 keyboard into the D1600.

Tom
 
meriphew said:
Go with the RNC - it's far superior to the Behringer.

________________
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Meriphew
www.meriphew.com
Click to expand...

Any arguments to back that up?
I did. and I wouldn't say it's "FAR" superior to the Behringer.
 
Speeddemon said:
Any arguments to back that up?
I did. and I wouldn't say it's "FAR" superior to the Behringer.
Click to expand...
Yeah - I've used both (I own a couple RNC's among my compressor collection), and to my ears (and just about everyone else's who have tried both) the RNC blows the Behringer away. I hope you're not implying that the Behringer is the better compressor.... that would be just plain silly.

________________
Post indie electronic
Meriphew
www.meriphew.com
 
I agree with MISTERQCUE. The RNC is a great compressor and should be on your list but you also need a limiter to tame the wild signal beast.
 
Middleman, I'm going to display my ignorance here, but, isn't limiting what a compressor does? I don't understand why, if the RNC is setup properly you would also need to use a limiter; why? Thanks; I've still got a lot to learn.

Tom
 
Limiters and compressors do the same thing. However, limiters have higher compression ratios.

Say I want to control sudden peaks in a signal, vocals and bass guitars come to mind. Let's use a vocal. Now, I could put my RNC in line and set the ratio for 1:25, its maximum, and the threshold on -3db. I do this because I don't want to kill the air of the vocal just want to reel it in. The vocalist takes off and unexpectedly really pushes their voice. I don't want to increase the threshold because now I am smashing the voice (this can be desirable for Pink but not Celine Dion who wants a crystal clean sound).

Because my limiter has ratios up to 1:100 I can really smash the peaks and keep my transparency with a low threshold. The same can be true for bass guitars or any other sound sources with wide and sudden volume swings.

Other variations on this theme are to use a limiter and a compressor. Say I want the compressive sound, more importantly slow attack and slow release, to sustain a weak vocalist or to fatten a bass. If my attack is slow, then some unwanted peaks may pop through. A limiter also in the chain can handle them. So I get overload protection and the fat compression sound I want.

You can also stack 2 compressors one for limiting and one for compression but you are up against the low ratio factor of 1:25 on the RNC.

There is another factor here which is controversial; that more expensive limiters/compressors have faster response times than lower cost units. Thus the comments above about the RNC not being as fast as a device designed to limit.

Here's a couple of quotes from some top engineers on their chains.

Elliot Scheiner "...I'll put a limiter in the line, barely touching it; it will only kick in if something terribble happens.

Humberto Gatica, on Celine Dion's voice " ...signal through a GML equalizer, which I think is the most musical equalizer that anybody can have access to. Then I use an old 160 dbx limiter/compressor ...."

There are many others. A typical hi end chain would be mic->preamp->limiter->compressor->recording device. The compressor is optional depending on what you are doing.
 
Tomcat said:
Middleman, I'm going to display my ignorance here, but, isn't limiting what a compressor does? I don't understand why, if the RNC is setup properly you would also need to use a limiter; why? Thanks; I've still got a lot to learn.

Tom
Click to expand...
It doesn't have a clipper, won't do brickwall or look-ahead limiting like a Waves' but it is damned fast. It can extract a loud snare almost completely out of a pair of overhead tracks. You can dial in as much or as little off either end of the envelope. And do it cleanly.
:D
 
Middleman said:
...snip...
Here's a couple of quotes from some top engineers on their chains.

Elliot Scheiner "...I'll put a limiter in the line, barely touching it; it will only kick in if something terribble happens.

Humberto Gatica, on Celine Dion's voice " ...signal through a GML equalizer, which I think is the most musical equalizer that anybody can have access to. Then I use an old 160 dbx limiter/compressor ...."
Click to expand...
It should be noted also that in many tracking applications, if it's digital clipping you're protecting against, it's just as well done by allowing some extra head room. If they are alowing it to 'hit', it's apt to not be a 'clipper' there're refering to. Opticals, 1176 ect. aren't that fast are they?
Wayne
 
Thanks, Middleman.

OK, here's what I'm doing and want to do: I'm using a SP TB-1 tube mic into an M-Audio DMP3 into the RNC and then into my Korg D1600 digital multitrack recorder. I'm doing an album of gospel songs and the way I sing isn't all that loud or soft, but it does seem to have a lot of untamed peaks without the RNC and still some even with it. They aren't just on the 'plosives (D, P,T etc.) and some of them must just be the way I'm pronouncing some words because they clip when I don't hear anything particularly loud. I presently have the RNC set at -10 threshhold, about 8:1 ratio, 0.2 attack, 0.5 realease and about 8 gain.

So what you are saying is that, for what I want to do, I would be better served by going to about -3 on the threshhold and 25:1 on the ratio and about 3 on the gain in order to get clear, clean sounds but no out of control peaks, right? Somewhere I got the idea that if you went over about 8 or 10:1 on the ratio you would probably get into "pumping" on the gain, so I've stayed away from that for that reason.

Do you have any recommendations for a limiter that would be the equivalent of the RNC (small and not too expensive but with good quality)?

Again, thanks for your help.

Tom
 
You don`t need a limiter at all!
Some of the guys here seems to believe you need one to avoid the peaks, but that`s not the case, and most "pro" engineers do not use limiters when tracking....

Humberto use the DBX 160 as a compressor on Celine, not as a limiter.

If you have trouble with peaks: turn down the gain, it`s that simple.....

Amund
 
Do you have any recommendations for a limiter that would be the equivalent of the RNC (small and not too expensive but with good quality)?
Click to expand...

If your on a budget, I just recommended this on another thread by the way, I would go for a dbx 160x or xt used at around $200-$250 on ebay. Better yet for slightly more money I would go for a an old 160. I got busted on the other thread for suggesting you can get one of these for around $200, which I have seen, but let's say for around $300-$400 on these.

As far as size these will all be 1u rack devices. I am not aware of higher compression ratios in a smaller unit but maybe someone else knows of one.

Regarding the higher settings on the RNC, you are on track. If you keep the threshold low, the attack fast and the release under 100ms at 1:25 ratio you should be OK for limiting on the RNC. If your still getting pumping back the vocalist off the mic. Keep the threshold low but play with it. Lots of variables on this. You need to play with it.

The goal is the most clarity (transparency) while taking out the hot spots volume wise. Use the Super nice switch on the RNC by the way, that way you are running it through the 3 internal compressors.
 
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