Recording EP- Advice?

[chamelious]

Hi,

Im planning to record my bands EP, but i dont have the provision for recording drums. So i thought, get half a day/ a days time booked in a local studio just to record the drums, take the drum recordings away on CD hopefully still in multi track format.

I have a number of worrys, mostly getting the tracks out of the studio and into my machine in sync. I use Reaper. Although it sound simplistic, i figure if the tracks are unedited at the studio, i should be able to just import the 5-10 wav files that make up a drum recording, and because they'll all be the same length, they'll stay in sync.

Anyone have any thoughts or advice on this method?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

My first question is, "Why stop with just the drums?" As long as you're down there, you'd be better off tracking the whole thing there. You could still take your tracks home and mix them yourself if you wish, and you'd have much better tracks to work with than if you try and record your stuff yourself.

You should have no real problem with lining up and syncing the drum tracks. Just make sure the studio uses the same sample rate and word length all down the line that you do (I'd recommend 44.1k/24).

I wouldn't depend upon just the start time of the tracks, however, because you'll still need to sync the rest of your tracks if your don't record them in the studio, and those will probably not have the same start time. You'll want to insert some leader time at the beginning of the drum tracks. Here's what I'd recommend (assuming you don't have actual time code to work with or don't know how to work with time code yet):

I'd have something like the drummer counting off with his sticks at the beginning of the audio tracks to use as audio cue markers, much like the old movie slate boards that they clap together before the director yells "Action!" Then when you move the tracks to your DAW, put the tracks in with a good 5 seconds or so of pre-roll silence at the beginning, lining up the stick hits in each track. If you have to first copy the best version of the stick hits (e.g. from the OHs) to the kick or other tracks because the bleed isn't strong enough, by all means do so.

Then when you go to record the other tracks, you'll have plenty of time after you hit record at 0:00 for the guitarists, keyboards, vocals, etc. to settle in and be ready for the countdown that will start at 0:05 and the song that will start soon after that.

Then when you have the mixdown finished, the first step you can take in mastering is to trim off the leader and the countdown to the into length you desire (if any).

G.

 

[chamelious]

Main reason is cost and time. I have gear to record guitars bass and vocals, and it gives me as much time as i like to put them down. I'll be doing all guitars and bass.

Its definatly a demo/EP, when we get to recording an actual album, it'll be all studio time i would think.

Thankyou very much for your advice and reminding me about sample rate.

 

[Ripthorn]

If you do go to the studio, make sure you practice with your drummer as much as possible. Depending on the number of songs you want to do, a day might not be enough to make sure everything is done just right unless you make sure your drummer can do the songs almost in his sleep. Practicing a lot will save you money in the end. The same goes for when you actually get in the studio as a band, practice as much as possible.

 

[chamelious]

Good advice thanks! We plan to have him on autopilot. A day was a guess, if it takes 2 it takes 2.

Any advice on metal guitars, i plan on double tracking through my V-Amp pro (haven't managed to afford that 5150 yet) and borrowing someones amp to double the doubles with and mix in to taste/if at all; the amp wont be a great one, almost certainly solid state, i dont know anyone with a decent amp.

 

[Ripthorn]

Make sure that you have multiple takes of each guitar part so that you can find the ones that fit best. Also, something that helps add depth to the guitars is to have one guitar part be slightly different from the other when you double track it (like some improvisations or something). A good example of this can be heard on NIB by black sabbath. Also, try using multiple mics to give you as many possibilities (if you are in to that kind of thing). You can also try recording direct (though I have never used a v-amp). You could even try amplitube metal (free 10 day demo, so you would track all of your guitars clean first, download the demo, and then apply the metal tone of your dreams). Anyway, those are just some things to think about.

 

[chamelious]

Cheers although i'm not new to this, just looking for some new ideas. Thankyou!

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Any advice on metal guitars, i plan on double tracking through my V-Amp pro (haven't managed to afford that 5150 yet) and borrowing someones amp to double the doubles with and mix in to taste/if at all; the amp wont be a great one, almost certainly solid state, i dont know anyone with a decent amp.

Remember that when building a wall of guitar noise on a recording that the amount of gain distortion you'll want on each individual track will most likely be substantially less than you'll be inclined to think. One of the most common problems on this board is the over-distortion of doubled or quadrupled guitar parts that only builds into a wall of phased mud.

Also make use of differential EQ to help lift and separate the parts slightly. On each side of your pan space pick one track that sounds just a bit better on the low end and one that sounds just a bit better on the high end and use EQ to bring out the best in each range for each part. Don't go heavy on it; use it smartly.

G.

P.S. Because of rising gas and food costs, as of July 1st, every metal-related question on this board costs one dollar, payable to me.

 

[chamelious]

Hmm yeah thanks for the EQ advice and yeah, i learned the high gain lesson a while ago! It makes a huge differance.

Any advice on the bass? I've read about but never tried splitting the signal up and applying heavy comp to the lower and and slight overdrive to the high end, sounds like it could work? DI'ing be ok for metal or would an amp help?

Edit: thanks for all your help so far by the way southside glen. In a month or so i'll post what we end up with and see if you've got time to have a listen.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Any advice on the bass? I've read about but never tried splitting the signal up and applying heavy comp to the lower and and slight overdrive to the high end, sounds like it could work? DI'ing be ok for metal or would an amp help?

Personally, I've never met a DI'd bass I couldn't work with.

As to what might and might not work for you, the best advice I can give is to plan ahead. By that I mean get an idea in your head of what you want your mix to sound like before you even walk into your recording room. Do you have the right bass? If you only have the one choice, then what does it sound like? Have your recorded it DI'd before? If so, will that work for what you have planned or will you need to spice it somehow? And like that.

Only YOU can answer whether any given technique will work for what you have planned. I will provide this hint to what you described, though: if you try to get every instrument to be dominant at every frequency, you'll wind up with a whole lot of instruments just fighting each other for space in the mix with none of them decisively winning the battle. The bass is meant to cooperate with the guitars, not compete with them. Leave room for the bass in the guitars and leave room for the guitars in the bass.

G.

 

[Daisy]

Good advice thanks! We plan to have him on autopilot. A day was a guess, if it takes 2 it takes 2.

Any advice on metal guitars, i plan on double tracking through my V-Amp pro (haven't managed to afford that 5150 yet) and borrowing someones amp to double the doubles with and mix in to taste/if at all; the amp wont be a great one, almost certainly solid state, i dont know anyone with a decent amp.

You don't have an amp yet, other than a V-amp?

If I were you, I might consider scrapping the whole "drums in a studio" thing for the time being ... save your money until you're working on a more serious project. You mentioned it's just a demo / EP. Why not just use this as a learning experience ... track everything yourself, and eventually, when you're ready to move up to the next level, then consider doing the studio thing.

And if you do wind up doing the studio thing ... I'm assuming you're all going to be playing together, so the drummer has someone to follow, etc. I would also assume that the studio you're at is going to have some guitar amps lying around. Why not keep your scratch rythm tracks from that session? (Unless you just completely suck that day, you should have something you can use out of it, which you can double later, on your own time)

 

[chamelious]

I've owned 10 or so amps in the past. I dont have one at the minute owing to space requirments. It wont be my first time in the studio and certianly wont be my first time tracking my own stuff. I've just never mixed both on one project. Sorry i dont think i made that bit clear.

 

[Daisy]

Well, seeing as how you have all this experience, I'm assuming you know the importance of actually having an amplifier for the recording process.

Glad I didn't need to remind you.

 

[starbuck26]

i would start by asking myself... does the world really need another metal band?

 

[chamelious]

Having an amplifier is very important for recording an album, for recording a demo its not important and its probably more trouble than its worth.

 

[Daisy]

Having an amplifier is very important for recording an album, for recording a demo its not important ...

Then why are you paying the money to record drums in a studio if it's just a demo and "not important?"

I'm confused.

 

[chamelious]

I appreciate you trying to help but im not sure where you're going with this. Its about a compromise. I've been using the V-Amp for ages and whilst its not good enough to record an album with its far BETTER than is required for a demo. As i said a few posts ago i do not have the facility to record drums. I have a few mics, but not enough, and i definatly dont have the space to do it in. So i'm saving myself a large headache and doing the drums in the studio, and everything else at home.

 

[Ripthorn]

If this is just a demo, look into someone's project studio where they won't charge you too much. Also, tracking drums can easily be done with just a few mics. One of my favorite setups is four mics, even on a large kit. If it is just a demo, you could maybe even do sampled drums. that takes virtually no space at all.

 

[chamelious]

i've done drums myself before, as i said i dont have a decent enough room to do it in. I do sampled drums everyday, my drummer wouldn't be too happy if they went on the demo.

 

[Ripthorn]

Ever looked into e-drums? Compact, quiet, can change the sound after the fact and the drummer doesn't feel left out, though the feel of the kit is markedly different and takes some getting used to.