Recording Bass

[xskhaos]

Ok, im new to the recording thing, so bear with me. I've got an m-audio firewire interface and use sonar for recording and im having a little trouble getting a bass sound im happy with. First off im trying to record a bass line that is distorted with a boss bass overdrive pedal. When I do this through the direct out of my amp, it sounds like shit, plain and simple. So, I decided to try to mic it up because it sounds great out of my bass amp. As I fiddle around with mic placement, im just not getting the fullness that i'd like with the bass. Im using a SM57, could that have something to do with it? Im liking the tone that im getting with the mic a lot better than direct, but again it just sounds weak. Almost like the bass is in a box or something. Anybody got any idea's how I could improve the recording quality?

 

[-=¤willhaven¤=-]

I hear a lot of people record bass direct. When I had my old setup (Event Layla and Cakewalk Pro Audio 9) I would plug a 60s P-Bass directly into the Layla with nothing in between and record.

It needed some EQ and compression, but sounded good afterward.

I'm setting up my new apartment studio and I also have an M-Audio (Firewire 410) and SONAR 4. I plan to record direct. I might get some pre-effects like a compressor pedal or run it through an EQ to begin with, but I plan to keep the setup as simple as possible.

Though, I still don't have my bass yet.

I've also just read in Guitar World (the one with "The Edge" on the cover) that a good way to EQ your bass into the mix is to record drums first, guitars second, then record and EQ the bass third. Never solo the bass, EQ it with the guitars and drums going until you can hear the bass the way you want it. The writer often said that, when you use that method where the bass sounds good in the mix, you'll be surprised at how it sounds when you solo it out.

 

[metalhead28]

Im using a SM57, could that have something to do with it?

Yes!

I record bass direct with no amp in the equation at all. Just a compressor and a DI box. For effects I use a modeler but I don't use many effects for bass. I would say for what you are trying to do the 57 is your weak link. It is not gonna capture the big low end of a bass rig. A kick drum mic or equivalent would work better for you.

 

[xskhaos]

bass mic

If the 57 is the weak link, then does anyone have a recommendation for a good bass mic? And does anyone know why it is that my overdrive sounds like shit when going in direct?

 

[-=¤willhaven¤=-]

I've used a Shure Beta 52 for recording bass and kick before and I would actually not reccomend it. It sounds nice, but the output was way quiet. I would have to duplicate tracks I recorded with it to thicken the sound.

 

[Garry Sharp]

The overdrive sounds bad because it is not going through any kind of speaker simulator. It's designed to work with a speaker.

Mic'ing a bass is very difficult because of the way lower frequencies roll around a room, you'll get big peaks and troughs at certain frequencies. The fastest / lowest cost solution might turn out to be a box like the Sansamp Bass Driver DI box, which has a drive control which gives you a more usable distortion (although you might not like it).

If it were me doing it, I would try running the main out from a box like the sansamp into my soundcard, and also use the direct out (which is a separate output bypassing the box's controls) into the Boss box and then into the amp, and also running the mic'd signal into another soundcard input. Then blend the two tracks in Sonar. You'll find you need to EQ the mic'd track a fair bit because it will have noticeable peaks at your room's resonant frequency (there is a tool on Ethan Winder's homepage which can guide you as to what that will be, it's dependent on room size, but you'll hear it anyway).

 

[xskhaos]

More info

Thanks for the explaination on the overdrive Gary. You went over my head a little bit with the room resonance stuff, im still a beginner. By your answer im guessing what I need to do is use a mic and a direct signal and mix the two together. Luckily i've got two bass amps. So, the plan is Mic one amp and run the distortion through that, then run my other amp direct. But, my question then is, how do I get a dry signal to go into my amp that is using the direct out? Is there so me kind of box I could get that would split my signal without affecting it before it gets to my overdrive pedal?

 

[Garry Sharp]

Sorry, my post could have been clearer. An hour or two spent here: http://www.realtraps.com/articles.htm will be useful for understanding what the sound does when it leaves your bass speaker.

Yes, I meant blending direct and mic'd. Could you say which amps you have and how their outputs are configured? Does one or both have a proper, balanced DI output, as opposed to a simple direct out on a 1/4" jack?

 

[xskhaos]

even more info

Gary, both amps are SWR amps. I have a workingman combo and a mo bass head. Both have balanced XLR outs. What I was planning to do is run the distortion into the combo and mic it and also run another signal into my mo' bass and run that direct out to my m-audio interface. But, my first dilema is splitting the signal. Is there any way I can do that without buying a A/B-Y box?

p.s. thanks for the help Gary i've already learned a lot.

 

[Garry Sharp]

Nice amps I have never used SWR - I guess that one or both will have an effects send / return loop. Can you check to see if the DI out is selectable before/after the FX loop (often the post/pre EQ switch has this effect). If so, you would just use one amp, select the DI out pre the FX and put your Boss box in the FX loop.

Another way that might work is to take an FX send out of amp "A" (your clean amp with a DI into your recorder) run it through the boss and into the FX return on amp B. This only works if plugging a jack into the FX send doesn't kill the signal - on some it does, on many there is a knob whch lets you blend the original and the FX return signal, so you'd just set it to 0 FX blend.

 

[xskhaos]

Oh yeah!

Gary that will work beautifully! My Mo' Bass, which is a killer amp by the way, has a direct balanced out that ignores everything after the pre-amp. So, I can run the FX out of the Mo' Bass (its a got a stereo fx loop with blend knobs) through the distortion and into my Workingman's fx return. Thank's a lot!!

p.s. mind if I pm you sometime with questions? You seem to be really helpful and knowlegeable.

 

[Garry Sharp]

Cool Is the Mo' Bass head happy without a speaker load? My G-K is but not all are. Of course you could just run the Mo' Bass into a speaker, with your boss in the FX loop and mic' that, you'd be getting your clean tone off the DI, so only have to use one amp.

Can I mention one other thing about recording bass, if you are new to it? I'm guessing you'r eplaying rock / metal kind of stuff if you are using overdrive. Many bassists in that genre tend to dig in, hit the strings hard. The key to recording bass is to play gently. If you play hard you get big attack transients, which means you have to record at a lower gain setting, which thins out the sound. Playing softly gives you a much richer, fuller sound. A good way to experiment is to turn your amp up say 30% louder than normal, and then try to produce the same sound level. It makes a huge difference to the recording, the bass sustains so much better.

PM by all means

 

[xskhaos]

!!!!

Thanks for the tip Gary. Being a bass player of many years I find that playing softly is better in general, live or recording. Unfortunately you don't always have the luxury of playing that way. If you are playing live and running direct into a nice loud P.A. its no problem, but when you are just playing through an amp you usually have to play louder to keep up with the other instruments. Bass is such a dynamic instrument, much more than guitar, so its hard to keep it consistent if your playing hard. Playing softly is easier on your hands so its easier to be consistent. I am new to the recording world though, so any help is much appreciated. And that website on acoustics was very helpful. Thanks again!

 

[Garry Sharp]

OK, I'll shut up now then