Recording a harp

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mikeh

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I will be starting a very unique project in two weeks. A CD with harp music and vocals. The vocalist will multi track all lead vocals, harmonies and other "melodic arrangements" around harp music.

Beyond working out the issues of cartage for the harp and insurance issues (the harpist wants the studio to assure insurance coverage while the harp is here over several days of tracking) - I am mentally preparing for what I hope will be a very interesting and challenging project.

My question is - has anybody ever recorded harp music?? if so, any hints, tips or tricks you can offer???
 
The only thing I could suggest, is to think about where a harp sound comes from. It isn't the strings, like you might think, but rather from the sound board, which is located along the back and at the bottom of the harp. I think I would start off by treating the harp as a sort of vertical piano.
I've always wanted to record one of these too, so I'm interested in how it comes out.

Keep us posted, it sounds exciting.

Here's some additional information that may prove useful:
http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/pages/Other Str Inst.htm
 
A harp would be fun. You could go for a closer stereo micing with more spread and upfront sound or a more traditional room micing sound.

BTW- There is no reason for you take responsibility over the harp if they want to leave it with you. If they don't want to lug it around that is their problem.
 
Thanks for the replys guys!!

To Michael Jones:

I had pondered the soundboard issue and did anticipate I would have to mic closer to the wood. You have helped to reinforce my theory. I have looked at several books and have found nothing in print re: harps. The piano comparison makes sense to me.

To: TexRoadkill:

I do plan to close mic - my client wants a stereo spread on the harp since it will be the only actual instrument.

Regarding the insurance issue - I do agree that I don't feel I should accept liability for the harp, but my agent thinks he can get a reasonably priced Inland Marine Rider - which I will simply bill to my client. I have a very decent security system and also have, steel doors, deadbolts, glass block windows, etc. (I don't trust anyone --- ever) so I'm not worried - but I'm trying to make this as stress free for the client as I can - so I'll work out the details and bury it in the costs)

My client is a Christian artist and I've been trying to break into that market for a while - so I'm trying to be a full service shop with the hope that word of mouth will be favorable - leading to more clients (I've rather have Christian artists in my house than Gansta Rappers - do Christian artists pop a cap in yo' ass if they don't like da mix????).

As I said - this will be a Bobby McFarrin with harp kinda thing - (I figure a once in a lifetime recording opportunity) so I'm more than willing to jump thru a couple of hoops!!!

Wish me luck!!!
 
So mike, what , uh, what mics ya gonna use on that harp?:)
 
If it's a full size, grand concert harp, it's gonna be a bitch to record. You need some distance to avoid all the creaking and clicking noises those pedals make.

I tried every mic I owned and most of them sucked for harp. The harpist brought three concert harps too, so it wan't a problem with this particular harp.

Here's what I found:

Putting her and her harp in the corner of the room helped with the room resonance problems.

Putting the harp on a large piece of plywood helped direct some of the highs up towards the mics.

None of my LD condensers or ribbon mics really sounded good. And most of the small condenser mics had way too much noise.

I finally settled on a pair of Shure SM-81s, positioned about 6 feet back from the harp, about 7 feet in the air, and arranged in an X/Y configuration.

Now all of this is before MXL, Oktava, and SP mics were on the market, so those may just work fine.

But when you finally find the right spot, oh God, what a glorious sound.

I hope some of this helps. She's gonna come back soon, and I'm dying to try all these new mics on her harps.
 
To: Michael Jones

The only matched pair of mics I have (not "factory matched") are a pair of KSM32's and a pair of MXL67's. I had thought of renting something but I didn't know what - although I'm trying not to blow the budget out of the water (I've already mentioned cartage and insurance). However Harvey posted some good suggestions (doesn't he always!!!).

I will be running thru a Presonus MP20 pre into Layla into Cakewalk. I had considered going to ADAT - but with the amount of vocal tracking - I think I'll need the editing abilities of a computer (not to mention the need to shuttle back and forth alot).

To Harvey

Thanks for the input. I suppose it is to be expected that our resident expert is the one who has actual hands on with a harp.

I think I can get access to a pair of SM-81's to have on hand in case the KSM32's or the MLX67's don't cut it. I had not considered noise from the pedals (although I'm sure I would have found that out very early in the recording process).

I don't really have a "great" sounding room and the 7' height will be tough in my basement. (That's why I was anticipating close micing). I have made arrangements to have access to a great sounding hall (wood floors, walls - wood everything) - in a temporarily closed bar - but the whole cartage and insurance thing comes into play. So I'm not sure how this will play out.

I very much appreciate everyone's input. I'll been hanging around this site for a couple of years and I continue to learn from my esteemed peers.
 
To: Michael Jones

The only matched pair of mics (not "factory matched") are a pair of KSM32's and a pair of MXL67's. I had thought of renteing something but I didn't know what - however Harvey posted some good suggestions (doesn't he always!!!). I will be running thru a Presonus MP20 pre into Layla into Cakewalk. I had considered going to ADAT - but with the amount of vocal tracking -I think I'll need the editing abilities of a computer (not to mention alot of

To Harvey

Thanks for the input. I suppose it is to be expected that our resident expert is the one who has actual hands on with a harp.

I think I can get access to a pair of SM-81's to have on hand in case the KSM32's or the MLX67's don't cut it.
 
Sorry for the double post - I got a weird proxy error - and tried to "resend"
 
Don't forget that with close micing, you may suffer from some proximity effect stuff, as in my experience, harps have a really wierd bass response. I mean wierd in the difference in amplitude between the higher notes and the lower notes. The lower notes in this case resonate a LOT more near the harp, but tend to disipate quickly with distance.

I don't know if thats scientifically correct, I'm just going on what i've listened to in setting up concerts etc.

Maybe it would be better to use a mix of the close micing and the pair of matched mic's for the stereo field - and then blending them both to get a nice mix of warm bass and the fabulous high end of the harp.

Thats all the "going out on a limb" i'm going to do here. So don't take my post as gospel, but more of an idea. ;)

cheers and good luck.

R
 
I reccomend a green bullit with a nice tube overdrive for Harp. Did you say the Client wanted a Delta Blues sound?:D
 
Bruce Bartlett ('Practical Recording Techniques') says: "Use a condenser mic with a flat response... You can mic a harp solo about 4 feet over the top. Tape a mini omni condenser mic to the soundboard if you need more isolation. A mic on the inside of the soundboard has more isolation; a mic on the outside sounds more natural. Also try a cardioid condenser wrapped in foam, stuck into the center hole from the rear."

Yeah, that's what I always do too - a cardioid condenser wrapped in foam stuck into the center hole from the rear. LOL
 
To Roachey & Dobro
Thanks for the additional info - I think I may have Practical Recording Techniques - I'll have to take a look again. I thought I had read something about a harp awhile ago - but I didn't recall which book.

To darrin:
Maybe I should confirm if indeed I am recording a Delta Blues Harp - that would solve the cartage problem

To MJ
Yeah, I've been trying to listen to harp music (I always thought that would happen after I was dead). Most of the stuff I have doesn't "feature the harp" it's more classical music with a harp passage here and there.


I'm gonna hit some CD shops and te local library this weekend looking for a couple of CD of "Harp Music" (Just when I thought my music library couldn't get any more eclectic .......)
 
I havent listened to it in years so I can't vouch for how good the recordings really are but Andreas Vollenweider (sp?) did a lot of instrumental harp albums and as I recall he has some pretty cool sounds. He was doing more of a modern new age type of thing if you are looking for sounds to compare.
 
There'a hyper text link in my last post mike.
Click on the blue part that says: "listening to a harp"
 
MJ - Thanks for the link (I never thought to click on your post).

Roadkill - Thanks the the Vollenweider reference - I'll check that out.

Gosh, Gee - everyones so nice and friendly here - I feel like Dorothy in the Land of OZ (except for the whole red shoes thing):D
 
Actually, I have quite a bit of experience with mic'ing harp, but most of it Celtic lap harp, a bit of a different animal. Of course, you can't put it on Harvey's piece of plywood, and you don't have to deal with the pedals. Close micing a concert harp will not work unless the piece doesn't involve using the pedals (some pieces don't) Finding out what the harp is like, and what the music is like in advance will cut your sound check time a hell of a lot. A little WD40 on the metal pedal linkages (not the wood) of the harp will go a long way toward quieting down the pedals. Actually, new style uses liquid graphite. Ask the harpist if there is any lubricating they can do to quiet the pedals, and explain the problem. They'll probably be willing to help. Of course you won't be putting any nassssty stuff on their pricey harp, because they will blow a gasket. Find out if the material that's being played makes extensive use of pedals, or whether it just has sharping levers.
Lap (folk) harp is easier, as it has no pedals, and can be treated a lot like a classical guitar, if it is nylon strung (most are). A few are bronze strung, and will be more reverberent, like a steel string guitar as opposed to a classic. I've had my best luck with a pair of Oktava MC012's X-Y in front and about at the top of the harp, backed off about 3 feet pointed down at the center of the soundboard. Not the *whole* soundboard, but the mid point between the highest and lowest note in the song being played. A third darker mic (Oktava MK319 in my case) is placed over the right shoulder (assuming rt. handed harpist) to pick up the deeper bass tones. See the hole in the back of the thing? That's the sound hole, like if a guitar had its sound hole cut in the back!
Remember that a folk player is called a harper and a classical player is called a harpist, like the difference between violin and fiddle. I'm sure your client will appreciate it if you ask questions up front that show you are considering the unique properties of this instrument. So the questions are: nylon or metal strung? Do you have pedals and will you use them? When you get them in the studio, check the highest and lowest note that will be used. For concert harp, boost highs by placing it on a hard surface, for folk harp, boost lows by using an LD condenser on the back of the body. Hope this helps.- Richie
 
A couple of things I forgot.- A lot of concert harps are still gut-strung, treat as nylon. Also a side note- I've had surprisingly good results also with an old Barcus-Berry transducer mounted low on the inside of the soundboard with heavy duty mounting squares (the whole thing is removeable). Jack this into a good DI. In a perfect world, that would be an Avalon. Lacking that, I use POD Pro guitar input, and out from the unprocessed guitar out. This is -10dBV, so it goes to an EBTECH LLS-2 line level shifter (a nifty $50 box) to get it to +4dBu, then into the board or recorder. With a lap harp, this requires a little bass boost EQ to get the sound right.-Richie
 
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