Questions about Solo Piano recording w/ Keyboards

[blazentech]

I'm an amature pianist who likes to write/record, and I'd like to be able to produce a studio quality solo piano CD, or at least a WAV file that I can have CD's made of.
Quite simply, what is the best set up for this? Is it possible to obtain a studio quality recording (that sounds like a real piano... a Steinway, perhaps?) with a keyboard? If so, what keyboard? And what kind of recording equipment would be best to use? I'd like to go direct from a keyboard to my computer. Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

 

[Rico 52]

A keyboard piano may sit well in mix but IMO it will never sound like a real piano. Can you do a pro recording -w- one. Sure but it will never IMO sound like a Steinway. All those strings .........all those overtones............all that depth.A real paino almost breaths. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't believe a machine can synthesize the tonal qualities that make a piano sound like it does.

Rico

 

[blazentech]

So what would be the best setup for home recording with electronic gear? Which keyboard gives the best piano sound?

 

[MessianicDreams]

do you own a nice sounding acoustic piano? i reckon for the price of a keyboard which would give you something towards what you want you'd be better off getting a decent audio interface (many of them come coupled with a recording programme) with a few mics..


because honestly if you're planning on recording solo piano i doubt you're going to find a keyboard that will give you a satisfactory sound..you can get an approximation..but it will always be just that, an approximation.

 

[noisewreck]

Which keyboard gives the best piano sound?

I think there are as many differing opinions on this topic as there are pianists out there. Personally, I absolutely hate playing acoustic piano stuff on electronic keyboards. I'd rather play some mediocre upright than an electronic stuff, although my preferred instruments are the Petrof grands, some of the Yamahas I've tried, and a few Steinways (in that order). This is mainly because of the way I respond and play the actual instrument compared to the electronic equivalent. A real piano sounds very different in the way you press those keys... whereas the electronics... they just care about velocity and not the manner in which that velocity is attained. So on the piano you can for example get a loud yet round tone or a loud and a harsh tone, depending on how you play... you don't have such nuances on the electronic ones.

Another performance issue for me is the sustain pedal. On a real piano it doesn't just tell the piano to "ignore the release state of the keys". It actually raises the dampers, which causes all the other strings to sympethetiaclly vibrate, which alters the overall tone of the piano. I frequently take advantage of this, specially when playing full chords. Take the beginning of Chopin's first Scherzo. It starts off with two ff chords. Before I even strike any key, I quickly release and depress the sustain pedal. This makes the dampers hit the strings and put them in vibration, even before I play the first chord. The result is a much more complex and full sound.

Having said this... a somewhat favorable personal experience I've had with... You might want to look at the Kurzweil's Triple Strike pianos (these are available for the K2xxx series, and the PC2), Synthogy's Ivory (plugin).

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I agree with just about everybody here that there is no comparison sound-wise between an electric leyboard and an acoustic grand or baby grand. But there is a potential trade-off in that the acoustic is much harder to record. Getting a grand piano to sound as good on disc as it does live really needs good microphones, preamps and miking technique. You don't *have* to use absolute top-shelf gear (though that certainly would be the best way to go), but a couple of SM58s run through an econo-mixer are almost certainly going to leave you rather disappointed in the recording, to a degree where a good electric keyboard is going to sound better with less work.

If you want to shoot for the best, record the acoustic; but get yourself a rather decent pair of microphones (preferebly quality condensors or piezo boundary mics, but some high-quality dynamics can be used to effect if done right) going into a better-than-average set of preamps, keep your signal chain as short as possible, and be prepared to experiment with a few mic positions until you find what you're looking for.

Much easier is the electric keyboard. It will never sound like a well-rigged grand, but it will sound a lot better for a lot easier than a poorly- or insufficiently-rigged grand. And I agree that every musician has their personal favorites - it's like chili, everybody thinks theirs is the best . I personally like the Yamaha Electric Grand, followed by some of the Korg stuff, but that's just one subjective opinion.

G.

 

[gcapel]

i've been looking at the same type situation. Ive tried out the Yamaha Motif and it has a ton of great useable sounds, particularly the organ sounds. Ive read alot of reviews that the Kurzwell comes the closest to the acoutic piano. If I were you I would go to a guitar center or big music store some where and spend about an hour or two trying them all out.

If I were to mic a piano, I would use two large diaphram condensers in stereo in prox of the hammers hitting the strings.

 

[skydye]

I'm an amature pianist who likes to write/record, and I'd like to be able to produce a studio quality solo piano CD, or at least a WAV file that I can have CD's made of.
Quite simply, what is the best set up for this? Is it possible to obtain a studio quality recording (that sounds like a real piano... a Steinway, perhaps?) with a keyboard? If so, what keyboard? And what kind of recording equipment would be best to use? I'd like to go direct from a keyboard to my computer. Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

I worked alot with baby grands. So please P.M. me and we'll go over how to do it.

 

[noisewreck]

If I were to mic a piano, I would use two large diaphram condensers in stereo in prox of the hammers hitting the strings.

Why would you do that? If recording a solo piano in a decent room, wouldn't it be better to place the mics further to give the tone of the piano room to develop and "breathe"?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Why would you do that? If recording a solo piano in a decent room, wouldn't it be better to place the mics further to give the tone of the piano room to develop and "breathe"?

That totally depends upon the room, the piano, the mics, whether Jupiter is aligned with Mars...

It can go either way, in my experience. Sometimes one works better than the others. Sometimes a combo of both works well.

Hell, sometimes any number of a half-dozen other positions works better than either one of those .

I will say though that - in general - miking right on/above the hammers tends to give a sharper rock-style sound. OK if you're doing Crocadile Rock. But moving down from the hammers 6"-8" or so towards the heel of the piano can yield a warmer and rounder sound often more suited to a classical sound.

G.

 

[Alexbt]

A real piano is always best! However, I would look into getting a finely sampled piano disc for control by MIDI. Just look at sampler piano packages (NI makes one that's pretty good).

Personally, I use a Kurzweil PC2R (I recently upgraded from the Kurzweil ME1 module), and it sounds good for what it does.

 

[gcapel]

That totally depends upon the room, the piano, the mics, whether Jupiter is aligned with Mars...

It can go either way, in my experience. Sometimes one works better than the others. Sometimes a combo of both works well.

Hell, sometimes any number of a half-dozen other positions works better than either one of those .

I will say though that - in general - miking right on/above the hammers tends to give a sharper rock-style sound. OK if you're doing Crocadile Rock. But moving down from the hammers 6"-8" or so towards the heel of the piano can yield a warmer and rounder sound often more suited to a classical sound.

G.

Right on! Notice I said Prox. Meaning remotely close. I don't think the guy that started this thread already has a well tuned room (no offense). Crocadile Rock...Yes... I Personally like "the band" in piano rock.

 

[greenie]

why lay out the bread to try to do this at home?
rent a studio with a grand and let them hassle with it. easiest route to studio quality, not to mention a time saver.

 

[blazentech]

A studio might be the best option... what I do have at home is an Alesis QS8 and a computer with an RCA cable going into the sound card, and Goldwave on my computer. In other words, the only thing my rig is good for is recording my "inspirational moments" when I just sit down and set forth a good motive that's been rattling around in my otherwise empty head.

The reason I'd like to be able to do this from home, is because I'm not that good of a Pianist... sounds wierd, but it takes me forever to get a flawless version of any of my songs recorded... (maybe that's normal?) I'm just afraid that if I went to a studio for a recording session I could spend a week in there and not come up with anything decent.

Let me pose another question: Is it worth it to record from an upright? Or is it pretty much pointless unless it's a grand? Keep in mind, I'm not George Winston or Yanni, but I am trying to eventually produce a CD that someone else would buy.

 

[BrentDomann]

Nobody has mentioned soundfonts. If you want to be less specific, what about using any midi-controlled sampler rather than a synthesizer? Admittedly, samples never capture the full sound of a well-miced piano, but they may have the "air" that even a good synth lacks. Moreover, you can buy or download brand specific samples, like Steinways or Yamahas, just to get the "flavor" (albeit I bet it's really watered-down) of the piano you want to capture.

I'm not an electronic musician and don't have a lot of experience with either synths or samplers at the high-end of the product chain, but it might be an option.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Let me pose another question: Is it worth it to record from an upright? Or is it pretty much pointless unless it's a grand? Keep in mind, I'm not George Winston or Yanni, but I am trying to eventually produce a CD that someone else would buy.

It depends on the type of music you play and what kind of sound you want.

If you are playing ragtime or rock or any breed of Louisiana, you could get away with an upright, and it often might actually be preferred over a string coffin.

But if you're looking more Windham Hill-style, or classic jazz, or piano-bar stylist, then an upright will probably sound too "cheap".

If you are seriously looking to sell your product like you say, then I would not cut corners; go find yourself a good studio with a nice 6' grand in good shape that they know how to keep tuned and know how to record, and send the mixes to a real mastering engineer. To make money, you gotta spend money and do it right.

G.

 

[ds21]

Not sure what setup you have (if any) but if your looking to go the vsti route (thats a "plug-in" instrument for computers) right now whats considered one of the best is Ivory (I think it was mentioned by noisewreck)

http://www.ilio.com/synthogy/ivory/reviews.html


some nice Audio demos here:
http://www.synthogy.com/

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Ivory/