PSA: Unraveling the mysteries behind America’s No. 1 cause of acute liver failure

How come your Tylenol is a killer and our paracetamol isn't when they are the same drug? Both sets of data cannot be correct.

I suppose it's down to individuals to assess - like we do when choosing politicians or even one DAW over another.

My wife works in the local hospital pharmacy. She rarely takes pain killers. I've got a dodgy back and some months I take a lot.

She deals with drugs that are controlled - that's our term for what I think in the US is the regulated drugs. Here, before drugs can be released to the public they are scrutinised by a Government linked organisation called NICE. They decided which gets controlled. Opiates are obvious ones as are those that have proven and evidenced clinical testing. Aspirin, ibroprofen and paracetamol based products are not considered risky, taken as per the instructions. Aspirin and ibuprofen have risks attached and the instruction sheet with each one details them.

If you do your own research and consider them too high a risk, not taking them makes sense.

Dependency on opioid based pain killers seems a much higher risk - organ failure with what we have here is considered a very low risk, taken as directed.
 
Man Mick your dog is one lucky dog...good on you for going the extra 10 yards and him keeping his leg...whew close one... Like my heartless surgeon said he'd of gotten used to it but the fricken trauma of losing it and having to adapt to never be the same...

Thanks man. Man I love that dog, we've been through a lot together. I mean, it makes sense. If you take a dog's foot he is lame. He will forever be trying to put the foot on the ground. Take the leg...and they never miss it. Bonus, less in the way if he wants to lick his balls, ha! Nah, they were gone when we got him from the rescue, heartless bastards. He's a big boy. One night went on and on whining, wouldn't sleep. I "slept" on the couch next to him. I took him in to the hospital at 3 am, out of the blue his hind legs weren't working as they should. By the time they took him back for examination and brought him back, he couldn't walk. 100 pound dog, can't walk, no life for he or anyone else. I figured that's it for my boy. I took off work for nearly a month, most of the time he in quarantine within a small cages area, me harnessing under his belly to take him a out so he could do his thing. It was bad, cried my eyeballs out. I couldn't believe it upset me so. Gradually...a fricken miracle his legs came back. I worry it could happen again, but at the same time I have to let him live his lifeand enjoy the time he is here.

The where we ditched the previous vet...I didn't want to go too long because sometimes I don't know when to shut up. We had a less than 2 year old chocolate cocker. Maybe could have been a good working dog, who knows, a dumb dumb, bit about the sweetest dog we have ever had. She had kidney failure, or kidney disease, or whatever. Initially spent a couple grand, finding all this out and what not. Sad reality, it was going to kill her. The vet acted like I was an asshole non caring dog owner because I wasn't going to bring her in weekly if memory serves for testing, checking creatinine levels and whatever. I mean we're talking thousands of dollars for a dog that's going to die from kidney failure. Nobody would have been happy, including the dog. Took her to another vet, same one who treated my boy, I was there with her when they put her down. I owed to her. Unfortunately wasn't the first, won't be the last. It's part of the deal.

I just don't know when to shut up, do I? : facepalm:
 
Thanks man. Man I love that dog, we've been through a lot together. I mean, it makes sense. If you take a dog's foot he is lame. He will forever be trying to put the foot on the ground. Take the leg...and they never miss it. Bonus, less in the way if he wants to lick his balls, ha! Nah, they were gone when we got him from the rescue, heartless bastards. He's a big boy. One night went on and on whining, wouldn't sleep. I "slept" on the couch next to him. I took him in to the hospital at 3 am, out of the blue his hind legs weren't working as they should. By the time they took him back for examination and brought him back, he couldn't walk. 100 pound dog, can't walk, no life for he or anyone else. I figured that's it for my boy. I took off work for nearly a month, most of the time he in quarantine within a small cages area, me harnessing under his belly to take him a out so he could do his thing. It was bad, cried my eyeballs out. I couldn't believe it upset me so. Gradually...a fricken miracle his legs came back. I worry it could happen again, but at the same time I have to let him live his lifeand enjoy the time he is here.

The where we ditched the previous vet...I didn't want to go too long because sometimes I don't know when to shut up. We had a less than 2 year old chocolate cocker. Maybe could have been a good working dog, who knows, a dumb dumb, bit about the sweetest dog we have ever had. She had kidney failure, or kidney disease, or whatever. Initially spent a couple grand, finding all this out and what not. Sad reality, it was going to kill her. The vet acted like I was an asshole non caring dog owner because I wasn't going to bring her in weekly if memory serves for testing, checking creatinine levels and whatever. I mean we're talking thousands of dollars for a dog that's going to die from kidney failure. Nobody would have been happy, including the dog. Took her to another vet, same one who treated my boy, I was there with her when they put her down. I owed to her. Unfortunately wasn't the first, won't be the last. It's part of the deal.

I just don't know when to shut up, do I? : facepalm:
Been through many dogs in my life, it’s always a heartbreak when they go. They have such short (but full) lives.

If one lesson can be learned from them, it’s how to love again.

Can’t say he many times I’ve said after losing my buddy, “that’s it I’m done. No more for me”.......

And lo and behold after a while another one of those furry fuckers finds me. Gives me that puppy look and starts following me around. And then you fall in love with the little bastard. :)
 
Sorry, more dog stuff.
I don’t understand why people buy dogs. All hung up on a breed, a certain bloodline from an esteemed breeder.

Isn’t that a bit pompous and kind of like the slave trade of old?

A dog is a sentient living creature. I have never bought or looked for an animal.

They find me.

Now I can understand getting a shelter animal. That’s quite noble and you’re saving them from a premature death. But even there, I think they pick you. You don’t pick them.

Ok, enough dog rants. ;)


Back to drugs. Yeah they’re bad. I think sometimes they cause more problems than they solve.
 
Sorry, more dog stuff.
I don’t understand why people buy dogs. All hung up on a breed, a certain bloodline from an esteemed breeder.

Isn’t that a bit pompous and kind of like the slave trade of old?

A dog is a sentient living creature. I have never bought or looked for an animal.

They find me.

Now I can understand getting a shelter animal. That’s quite noble and you’re saving them from a premature death. But even there, I think they pick you. You don’t pick them.

Ok, enough dog rants. ;)


Back to drugs. Yeah they’re bad. I think sometimes they cause more problems than they solve.

I'm hearing ya. Mostly always had female dogs. My boy Dakota never got old and decrepit, he just got old and over a few days decided he was tired and done. Posted his pic the day before we took that ride here in the pet thread. Took a break, time to get used to him being gone, wasn't sure I wanted to go through it again. Wife pushed, I wasn't ready. Our other little dog missed having a sidekick, I could tell. I visited the pound, which actually I did all along when in the neighborhood, just to maybe give those guys a lift, a little encouragement. I wasn't feeling "the one". The wife suggested a site online, a rescue. I saw his little mongrel looking ass, about 4 hours away. I think that's the guy. He had been caught by whoever, wild, lonesome little guy. He was deemed feral, non adoptable. Slated for euthanasia. A rescue got him. That's where I saw him, online. We traveled, they met us halfway. I saw him, friendly enough, not touchy feely, but fine. Name popped into my head, Trampas, from the 60s-70s western series. I later looked up the name, and the book the series was based upon. Trampas translates to snare, or trap, just as he had been captured as a lonesome little guy all alone in need of someone who gave a damn. He has had some rough times, from the start. I feel so lucky and actually look at him sometimes and can't believe, that's my dog. My best friend. He's been such a good dog, such a good companion. A handsome guy. Can't find the pic in all his magnificent glory(hope it didn't get deleted), here's a sleepy bye.
 
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As I've said many times here, we relocated about a year ago this month. As a consequence we no longer have the same pc physician. The wife made me an appointment at some, I do know, school? Long story shorter the student(accompanied by a real bonafide Dr) upon evaluating my blood work determined my bad cholesterol was a little high. When you have a hammer everything looks like a nail, he had an opportunity to do some doctoring, wanted to put me on a statin(sp?) drug. I don't know much about it, but from what I think I know you go on something like that you never go off it. I could be wrong but I'm imagining the drug starts to regulate and your body says it no longer has to, your chemistry gets messed up. I ain't doing it. It worries me a bit how that would work with my insurance, denying care. But I just don't want to go on a drug the rest of my life. Of course I don't want a heart attack or a stroke either. Porterhouse said he takes fiber such as metamusal and it's supposed to help with lowering cholesterol. I don't know the truth of that, but I've started taking it(although I miss days). The added benefit, makes me poop pretty regularly. Come to think of it, whatever happened to the poop thread? It's not a trivial matter, shit happens, hopefully with regularity.
 
As I've said many times here, we relocated about a year ago this month. As a consequence we no longer have the same pc physician. The wife made me an appointment at some, I do know, school? Long story shorter the student(accompanied by a real bonafide Dr) upon evaluating my blood work determined my bad cholesterol was a little high. When you have a hammer everything looks like a nail, he had an opportunity to do some doctoring, wanted to put me on a statin(sp?) drug. I don't know much about it, but from what I think I know you go on something like that you never go off it. I could be wrong but I'm imagining the drug starts to regulate and your body says it no longer has to, your chemistry gets messed up. I ain't doing it. It worries me a bit how that would work with my insurance, denying care. But I just don't want to go on a drug the rest of my life. Of course I don't want a heart attack or a stroke either. Porterhouse said he takes fiber such as metamusal and it's supposed to help with lowering cholesterol. I don't know the truth of that, but I've started taking it(although I miss days). The added benefit, makes me poop pretty regularly. Come to think of it, whatever happened to the poop thread? It's not a trivial matter, shit happens, hopefully with regularity.
Hundreds of millions of people all over the world are on statins. It's one of the reasons life expectancy trends up and heart disease down. They come in different strengths, so they'd probably start you on the lowest dose, 10 mg, and see what happens to your cholesterol after 6 months. If they could, doctors would place the entire world on statins, given their effectiveness in cholesterol reduction, the general lack of adverse side effects and the consequent reduction in heart disease.
 
Place the whole world in statins? Alright, then.

I don't want to be on a drug. I'm bad at it, it's a pain in the ass. Of course dying or stroking out would be bad too. I'm attempting to lower it with a lifestyle change. I guess I'll see what happens, for now. I honestly haven't given it much thought, but knee jerk, I'm not so sure I want to live to be really old. Give me another 20 years, I think I'll be satisfied with that. I've seen the difficulties people go through from 80 on up. It ain't pretty. Quality of life diminishes significantly.
 
One question, though....once you are on statins can you go off of them if your cholesterol lowers? I may be wrong, but I was kind of thinking once you're on them that's it, you must continue
 
If you can keep your cholesterol at low levels through diet, then you won't need the statin. Easier said than done 😐
 
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How come your Tylenol is a killer and our paracetamol isn't when they are the same drug? Both sets of data cannot be correct.
I know it was clear at least 20 years ago that long term use of Tylenol was not good for your liver. Looks like the UK max dose is 550 mg per pill U.S. made them drop it to 350 mg

It appears the UK has the 2nd highest rate of acute liver failure with Ireland coming in first...go figure o_O

I'd go easy on its use and would encourage aspirin in small doses in it's place... for sure not more than 8 pills in a day...that's the max the UK advises...
https://britishlivertrust.org.uk/researchers-shed-new-light-paracetamol-causes-liver-damage/
Here's a 2017 UK article on it
 
One question, though....once you are on statins can you go off of them if your cholesterol lowers? I may be wrong, but I was kind of thinking once you're on them that's it, you must continue
Any reduction is not a permanent thing. That's why you take them daily. They only work so long as you take them. There are other ways to reduce your cholesterol, but as Spantini said - good luck with that - it can be hard work, but doubtless the effort has other health benefits. I keep telling myself I'm going to do that...

All depends upon what your personal cholesterol is and what other risk factors are in your life. If it's that bad that they need to get it down quickly for imminent health reasons, then you'd be a mug not to take the recommended dose of a statin as a starting point. If it's slightly elevated and you want to try using more natural means, go for it - no downside there.

You could also do both. Something else I tell myself... :-)
 
I know it was clear at least 20 years ago that long term use of Tylenol was not good for your liver. Looks like the UK max dose is 550 mg per pill U.S. made them drop it to 350 mg

It appears the UK has the 2nd highest rate of acute liver failure with Ireland coming in first...go figure o_O

I'd go easy on its use and would encourage aspirin in small doses in it's place... for sure not more than 8 pills in a day...that's the max the UK advises...
https://britishlivertrust.org.uk/researchers-shed-new-light-paracetamol-causes-liver-damage/
Here's a 2017 UK article on it
Exactly. This is not new news. Aspirin ain't necessarily good either, depending upon how your stomach handles it.

Paracetemol comes in 500 mg here in Australia. I prefer ibuprofen. Not sure what you call that in Imperialist Pig Dog Yankistan, but no doubt there's another name for it. Which is weird... you'd think a chemical compound/drug would have an official name the world could agree on. "Advil" is available over here - ibuprofen - although we have had our own brands for decades.

If I'm taking either more than once every couple of weeks, then there's something else I need to be looking at. Usually water consumption.

#goesandgetsadrinkofwater
 
Any reduction is not a permanent thing. That's why you take them daily. They only work so long as you take them. There are other ways to reduce your cholesterol, but as Spantini said - good luck with that - it can be hard work, but doubtless the effort has other health benefits. I keep telling myself I'm going to do that...

All depends upon what your personal cholesterol is and what other risk factors are in your life. If it's that bad that they need to get it down quickly for imminent health reasons, then you'd be a mug not to take the recommended dose of a statin as a starting point. If it's slightly elevated and you want to try using more natural means, go for it - no downside there.

You could also do both. Something else I tell myself... :-)

It's not that bad that they need to get it down quickly, as far as my understanded goes. The student doctor, or whatever the correct term, he called and left a message letting me know the results of my blood work. All numbers looked pretty good, but my cholesterol was a little high. He recommended I start taking a statin. I went to a student doctor because we are in a new location and had yet to establish a primary care physician. A few months after that I saw a doctor nearer my new home, pretty much just to get established and on the list as a new patient. Records were transfered. His comment on my cholesterol, it's a little high, a little work on getting that down and monitoring. I am borderline high at 143.

What can I say, I don't want to start taking medication I will never go off of for the rest of my life. I will if it will keep me healthy(er). I don't wanna @ borderline high.
 
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