Power - Tube vs. Solid State

[MrStitch]

If i set a 100 watt solid state next to a 100 watt tube amp.... would the tube amp be way louder, or would it be the same, but just just sound better at peak level?


Don't know if this is true or not, but i've heard that tube amps are way louder than their solid state counter parts.... and sound better doing it.

 

[donkeystyle]

i've compared 2 tube amps to a solid state peavey. the peavey was 100 watts, I compared it to a 55 watt rivera, and i can't remember the other amp i compared it to. the max voume i was able to achieve on both tube amps was higher than the solid state.

I don't believe it's completely a tube versus solid state question though. I know that things other than wattage will affect the maximum apparent volume of any given rig. I believe ohmage and cab size are 2 things that will have an effect. I also imagine (but don't know for sure) that quality of the parts used to make the amp will effect it also........I think that solid state amps are quieter not because they're solid state, but because they are generally made using much cheaper parts than many tube amps.

But this whole response is just a semi-educated guess. someone else may know for sure. there used to be a guy on this site called barefoot.......i think that was his screenname.........if he's still here, he would be the guy to ask.

 

[Outlaws]

I believe ohmage and cab size are 2 things that will have an effect.

Thats one.


The power supply is the other part. Watts for amps, at least tubes, is merely how much relative volume can be achieved before breakup (maximum breakup?) Either way, when Fender ...coughcough...I am sorry...when CBS was screwing with the amps in the 70's, they wanted more volume. The answer? Larger power supply.

 

[SHEPPARDB.]

This is just my opinion but,it is a good one since I have played for 25+ yrs:
Tube amps always cut thru the mix better than solid state in a live situation,
and it has less to do with volume and more to do with clarity and tone de-
finition.
If you have two players in a band and one is using solid state while the other
is using tube,the solid state player will never sound loud enough without being obnoxious.
A good tube amp is hard to beat!

 

[Farview]

Part of it is the fact that, with a solid state amp, you want to stay below clipping (because it sounds bad). with a tube amp, you can drive the power stage into clipping and beyond. This leads to added compression and a higher RMS level and is therfore louder.

 

[boingoman]

Yup, And harmonic distortion sounds louder. Two amps, same power, the one distorting the outputs will sound louder.

 

[Buck62]

I think tubes sound better overall, but you "tube purists" kill me with your old-school generalizations.

A Tech 21 Trademark 60 (which doesn't have a single tube in it) will hold it's own versus just about any 50 or 60 watt tube amp you can name in volume and tone. There are a few other exceptions, too, like the Roland Cube amps that rival tube amps in tone and volume that are rated at the same wattage.

Most of the time, yes, tube amps are better. But let's not forget that solid state technology has come a long, long way and is nipping at the heels of tube amps in sound quality and power. Let's also not forget that tube amps are much costlier and require maintanance that solid state amps will never need.... new tubes. Tube amps also generate hiss and hum that are absent from most solid state amps when you get to those louder volumes you guys speak of.

Yes, tube amps are generally louder and have a sweeter, harmonic sound. But, there are advantages to solid state amps that make them desirable and genuine contenders at the music store. If not, solid state amps would be obsolete and everything at Sam Ash and Guitar Center would be all-tube amplifiers.

 

[shredfit]

You mean the Tech 21 set beside a Mesa Boogie Mk III 60w(tube) combo will "hold it's own" ?

IMHO: The Mesa will smoke it!

BTW: I've had them side by side

Shred

 

[Buck62]

You mean the Tech 21 set beside a Mesa Boogie Mk III 60w(tube) combo will "hold it's own" ?

IMHO: The Mesa will smoke it!

BTW: I've had them side by side

Shred

First of all, I doubt you've conveniently had these two amps "side-by-side" and carefully and scientifically compared them with a decible meter with the same guitar under controlled circumstances. But it sure makes for a good response.

Yes, the Mesa definitely would be louder. I don't need you to tell me the obvious. But the Trademark 60 will hold it's own with a 50-watt Fender tube amp, which is what most people can afford and purchase at a rate many times higher than those who purchase a boutique amp like a Mesa. As far as tone goes, that's subjective. These two amps run neck-and-neck in their respective ratings in the user reviews at Harmony Central... check it.

BTW, what's the price of that old Mesa combo versus a brand new Trademark 60????

The average price for a used Mark III is over $700 these days... and no warranty because it's used. The Trademark 60 can be had for $500 brand new with a warranty and you never have to change a tube... ever.

 

[dragonworks]

I have owned both tube and transistor amps and a couple of hybrids.My transistor amps broke down on me far more often then my tube amps.

 

[shredfit]

First of all, I doubt you've conveniently had these two amps "side-by-side" and carefully and scientifically compared them with a decible meter with the same guitar under controlled circumstances. But it sure makes for a good response.

In fact, they were setting right beside each other (in the store I used to work at) so it was very "conveneint" to compare them with the same guitar... (the Mesa and Trademark).

In fact, it was NOT just my opinion. Players in the area trying out a new axe... would sometimes wanna hear it through a SS amp and a tube amp...(again side by side as the Mesa and Trademark "conveniently" sat) and they would ALL say... Man that is why I still lug around my tube amp. Don't get me wrong, just plugging into a Trademark will yeild pretty good result...unless you compared those results to a tube amp that has similar gain capabilities. Sitting 2 amps down was a Marshall 50w combo(tube) that also killed the Trademark

I think it would be much safer to say the Trademark 60 holds it own compared to other SS amps similar in it's class (like a Peavey Bandit). Which I would choose the Trademark.

Shred

 

[Buck62]

I have owned both tube and transistor amps and a couple of hybrids.My transistor amps broke down on me far more often then my tube amps.

Me too, and I've had the exact opposite experience in nearly 30 years of playing. Hiss, hum, and crackle... that's what tube amps give you with all that "great tone."

Last weekend we recorded a Jimi Hendrix tribute band and he brought his Marshall half-stack with an all-tube head, which was less than a year old. This thing had so much crackle from a bad tube that it was totally unusable, it would've ruined a great performance. Instead, we had to use my little Marshall AVT50 combo, which is solid state except for a single-tube preamp. The little Marshall sounded great and there was no noise whatsoever. For recording, I'll take a solid state amp over a noisey tube amp any day of the week.

 

[Farview]

All amps need maintainence. If your buddy couldnt come up with the money for new tubes (from your description, it was just a $9 12ax7 causing the problem) then ,yes, maybe he shouldn't play a tube amp.
In almost every thing you can think of, the higher the quality, the more the maintainence. A Ferarri is a lot touchier than a Chevy. It is something that you have to accept and take responsibility for. Tube amps aren't aren't for the lazy, weak or ignorant. You have to learn about them, maintain them, and cart them around. Welcome to it.

 

[Buck62]

In fact, they were setting right beside each other (in the store I used to work at) so it was very "conveneint" to compare them with the same guitar... (the Mesa and Trademark).

Shred

A music store is the absolute worst environment you can test an amplifier! You can't judge anything there because you can't crank the amps to "club level" or determine how it sounds with a mic or two in front of it in a studio.

Since you worked at a music store, I'm sure you've had people who have returned or traded in amps that they thought sounded good in the store, only to find that it sounds like poop in the studio or playing out live in a club... which are totally different environments.

It happens all the time.

 

[shredfit]

Buck62,

That is becasue people don't take care of their tube amps. If you put new tubes in (btw stock tubes are usually crap) bias it... and keep it clean (ie clean it every now and then) you will not have the hiss/crackle/hum... assuming your power is rather clean in the first place.

I've had people bring in Fender Backface (the vintage real deal) amps for sale and point out that it still has the original tubes...(thinking that is gonna make it worth more or a selling point) This first thing I tell them is... lets get some tubes in it and get it a bias and then we can talk about what you want for it.

Tube amp require upkeep... Would you show up to a car auction with a 50's-60's classic car to sell without ever washing it...changing the oil etc...

Shred

 

[Buck62]

Thanx for finally getting my point.

Look, I've said over and over in each post that tube amps have more power and sound better than solid state amps, which is the point of this whole thread. But for some reason you guys keep read something else... like I'm saying that solid state amps are "just as good or better." I never said that.

What I've been saying is that solid state technology has come such a long way over the years that solid state amps are now a genuine competitor to their tube counterparts. It's undeniable that tube amps need more maintanance and care than solid state and cost more. If one can afford to buy a highly-expensive all-tube Mesa Boogie, that's great. But you can get more bang-for-your-buck with these newer analog-technology (Tech 21 Trademark series) and hybrid amps (like the Marshall AVT50) that get 70 to 80% of the volume and 90% of the tone of an amp that costs double the price.

If I'm wrong about that, maybe you'd like to explain the massive sales numbers in recent years of the POD, Sansamp, Line6 amplifiers, the V-Amp, the Roland Cube series, Vox Valvetronix, and the endless amounts of amps out there that rely on "modeling technology" rather than real tubes.

BTW, all that great tone you hear on Led Zeppelin's first album was Jimmy Page playing a Telecaster into a solid state Supro amp.

 

[boingoman]

Well, it was a small Supro, but tube, not solid-state.

 

[ibanezrocks]

I'm not saying solid-state is better at all, but if you're comparing an expensive tube amp with the cheapest ss amp you can find, you're not even giving it a chance. I'd take a good solidstate amp over a cheap tube amp.

 

[Farview]

I'm not saying solid-state is better at all, but if you're comparing an expensive tube amp with the cheapest ss amp you can find, you're not even giving it a chance. I'd take a good solidstate amp over a cheap tube amp.

There really are no 'cheap' all tube amps, at least not 50 or 100 watt heads.

 

[Buck62]

Well, it was a small Supro, but tube, not solid-state.

You're mostly right and I'm just partially correct. The Supro Thunderbolt has a solid state rectifier, but the rest is all-tube... 2 12ax7's and 2 6L6GC's.

I stand corrected.

But on Zeppelin II, Jimmy used a Vox amp that was 100% solid state, along with a 100-watt Marshall tube amp.