Please come here if you have good advice on what i should buy...

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CloseYourEyes

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What's up guys? I'm seeking some good advice here. I'm opening up a home-type studio. I will provide as MANY details as i can fathom(or i'll try at least). Okay, i will tell you a little about what i want to accomplish and what means of buying it i have. I want to start a studio in my garage(eventually covering the walls in carpet or something)(<-don't let that be a factor), i want the sound to be STUDIO QUALITY; I'm talking like "good-enough-to-be-make-an-album-there" quality. I do know this is feasable because i attended a recording of my friend's band at a place called Valcor studios; it's run by a guy named Hank and his gear mainly consists of a big ass mackey mixer w/ the level display, a huge rack full of compressors, preamps(?), effects, etc; and then he has like 4 or 5 Alesis ADAT recorders(dont ask me why he has that many). Oh yeah, for mics, he has a bunch of sm57s and a Neumann condenser for vocals. Anyways, he charges like 35 bucks an hour and the quality is ultra-professional. What i'm trying to do is emulate that quality. Okay, for graduation(i'm a senior in HS), i'll be getting quite a bit of money. I'm expecting anywhere from a minimum of about $1500/$1700 to $5000/$6500 tops(depending on if my grandmother forgives my mediocre grades and decides to give me the 5000 bucks she told me i could get if i made all A's). Now, i know, with the latter figures, i can pretty much put together a really good studio(keep in mind that my needs are much less)(like a 16 channel mixer at the most as opposed to his 343,523,556.03 channel mackey). However, i'm expecting the lower sum. What should i buy? Or start off buying at least? I'm guessing the BASICS i will need will be a mixer, mics, monitors, and some kind of media burning machine(CD, ADAT, Vinyl[i wish]). My preference is CD. Does anyone make a semi cheap(used obviously) 8-track CD burner(rackmount style)? My next choice would be ADAT. Okay, i guess eventually, when i have more flow(or in the strange event that i get the latter sum of money), i can buy a patchbay too. Anyways, i'm sure i will have a gazillion more questions. I'll be back lol. If anyone wants to take a stab at these questions(or lack thereof), i would like to thank thee ahead of time! THanks!!! -Tyler
 
Sorry, man. I don't think it's feasible.

You CAN have a great studio if you're very very very smart about where you put your money, but there's no way it can suffice as a commercial spot. There are just too many instances where you wouldn't be able to handle a client in a proper way.

That rack of gear that you saw at the other studio, if it did have preamps and great compressors, could have cost 50 grand.

Or a lot more.

Easily.

And this guy, if his stuff was really world-class, could have AMAZING chops. That doesn't mean you won't, but if you're just starting out, there's no way you do yet.

I would do some REAL hard research before you jump into something like this.

Recording is an incredibly cool way to make it from paycheck to paycheck (if you get one), but you won't make a great living at it unless you pour a TON of money in and/or you are a prodigy.

Just chiming in with a little reality - sorry if it's harsh.

Ken Rutkowski
www.OuterLimitRecordingStudio.com
 
I agrree with Ken.........

Sorry to burst your bubble, but $5000 will not get you anywhere near a professional setup....

A couple of modest pres will eat about 1/4 of it right there! Then tehre's mics, cables, mixers, outboard gear, the list goes on and on....

To be in a position to seriously handle client's needs, I guarantee you'll need to start with at least a $50,000 outlay........

Trust me.... been there........!
 
God Almighty...

ahh the joys of never-ending surprises of large costs... gets me every time. Okay, i think you guys have me a little misunderstood(or maybe i just made myself out to be a little more naive that you've got me for). I bet its just that i overexaggerated a bit. Okay, i understand all of that stuff about money but i'm not trying to build electric ladyland here. I'm just trying to get enough stuff to record "demo" quality(as i think you guys call it)(i call it "album" quality lol)(different strokes for different folks). I am content to use the stock pre's on the mixer, probably the stock reverb on the mixer too. Also, compression, i've learned, is very key. I would spend some money to buy a decent compression unit. I imagine end up borrowing a lot of my churchs stuff too(they have 24-ch mackey, a few fx units, a power amp, a few sm58s and some various mics and a bunch of chords and crap) Which brings me to my next point, do i need a power amp to use the mixer? i know i'm not gonna be powering PA or anything which is why i'm curious. I'm sure you guuys have the answers as always. Looking for to it.
 
Is anyone else getting a little bit of a creepy feeling...?

A young kid named TYLER shows up and asks how to build a pro-sounding studio on a severe budget, while remarking that he can always borrow stuff from his church... (cue "Twilight Zone" music...)

Deja vu anyone? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
Now that you've been squashed flat, understand that being a recording engineer or a producer is a profession, and it takes time and practice to get any good at anything. In order to do that, you have to have something to practice *with*. Mr. Urcine d'Azure is quite right to point out that you are ahead of yourself to be talking pro. First, grasshopper, you will need knowledge, and for that, you have come to the right place. Spend your first $100 or more on books, used if you can find them, on microphone and recording techniques.
You will need to decide right off the bat whether you will be using a computer or console to record initially. I don't think ADAT is your best choice in budgeting. Frankly, with all due respect to the recording pros above, I *am* recording a serious album in a project studio built on a budget not too much bigger than your best case scenario. However, I am only doing the tracks here, I am outsourcing remixing and mastering, because I have neither the expertise nor the gear for it. No kidding, I'm tracking this puppy on a Roland VS1824CD, an all-inclusive digital recording console with a built in CD (about $2000), supported by a bunch of outboard gear and a collection of hybrid Australian, Austrian, Chinese and American mics.
You can do a lot with the budget you hope for, but commercial work starts at the cost of a new HumVee.
Basically, the computer is more cost-effective but has a somewhat steeper learning curve, and is noisy. It is also more upgradeable, and far less portable. What the hell, I chose the console. If the computer route is chosen, you will need a pricey soundcard, and that assumes you already have a fairly up-to-date computer. Once you have chosen a recorder, you will need at least one preamp to start. They go $80 to $5000 per channel or more, and you get what you pay fore. Some fair starters are made by ART, Presonus, Studio Projects, and others for $200 per channel or so. I would say even to start, get 2 channels, for learning basic stereo micing technique. Lo, You will need some mics. Everybody has their favorites, and it is at this time you have to decide what you're going to record.
You need a signal, as it may be you won't get to record Madonna first time out. If you play, cool. If not, find a garage band to begin learning, and pick up an instrument and learn.
At an absolute minimum, I think you need 1 large diaphragm condenser mic for vocals, 1 small diaphragm condenser for brighter instruments (a matched pair of these is better), a couple of dynamic stage mics, at least one of which is appropriate for kick drum. You'll need additional funds for monitors, headphones, a headphone amp and mic stands, cables, pop filters for vocals, and quite a bit for room conditioning/ soundproofing.
I recommend that you spend several months on line and spooking around on this board and others like it before you plunk down a pile of change on the wrong gear. This will give you time to aquire bits and pieces used or on ebay. First, you have to know what those pieces *are*. Then, you develop a personal relationship with your friendly local pro audio sales staff and dicker the best package deal you can on as much of the new stuff as you can at one time. Remember that pro audio gear is sold like cars. Price is generally negotiable. I'm sure we'll get to chat again. Best of luck.-Richie
 
Let's see . . . first he says he needs STUDIO QUALITY (and he later reveals that he can get it using the stock reverb on a mixer).

Then he says he needs DEMO QUALITY.

Mentions that $1,500 is the starting point for what he considers "a lot of money."


I know of just the place who could use someone like you:

http://www.fullsail.com/


:D :D (Just kidding to any alum out there)
 
To get you started a Soundcraft M12 and an Alesis HD24 would get you the main system for about $3 grand. An FMR RNC Compressor, some monitors (many to choose from) and a few good mics Studio Projects, MXL, SM57 would be a good start for around 5 grand total.
 
littledog said:
Is anyone else getting a little bit of a creepy feeling...?

A young kid named TYLER shows up and asks how to build a pro-sounding studio on a severe budget, while remarking that he can always borrow stuff from his church... (cue "Twilight Zone" music...)

Deja vu anyone? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Click to expand...

I would guess that's actually a pretty common scenario. That was me when I was a senior in high school. Luckily there was no internet for me to make an ass out of myself in the process.
 
TexRoadkill said:
Luckily there was no internet for me to make an ass out of myself in the process.
Click to expand...

LMAO! Don't worry, you're more than making up for lost time. :D (Just messin' with ya, Tex).
 
I'm creeped...

Tyler do you play an insrument(s) or sing? Or do you just want to record other people?

If your wanting to get into it to make money, forget it. You know all those mp3's on your computer? Who's gonna pay you?

We don't do this for money (except for a few). We do it because were sick. We've already spent enough money that we can't quit now or it would be a waste. And some of us want to be rock starz! I started off a couple of years ago with the dreamy intention of making money... And I had a HELLUVA lot more than a couple thousand dollars. I've spent around 30k and I've got a lot of nice instruments and stuff but it's just a hobby. To be pro, like they said, alot of money. Plus even if you got all the stuff to set up a "pro quality studio" you wouldn't have any clue as how to even hook it up, not to mention produce a quality recording. It's actually very hard.

If you play or sing and want to make music go for it. Because you will get alot of enjoyment out of it. If your just wanting to record others and especially for money, give it up. Your money would be better spent on almost anything. You have no idea how much this shit costs! It's exponential with every piece of gear you get. Sorry for the buzz kill.
 
Tex: ...Luckily there was no internet for me to make an ass out of myself in the process.
Chessrock: ...you're more than making up for lost time

Too funny!

Look Tyler, suck it up. Take half the money from granny and either buy some new clothes to make yourself presentable to a potential employer, or put it toward your first semester of college.

Take the other half and buy some home recording stuff you can learn on over the next few years.
 
To my oh so condescending teachers...

Okay, guys here i go again:

For the record: i have been playing guitar 6 years now, i've been singing since i was young. I DO know a bit about studio recording, i have had a Fostex DMT-8 for a year. The reason i said both "album" quality and then "demo" quality is because i realized that MY idea of pro quality is a lot LOT different than you guys. Keep in mind most of the bands i'll be recording will be metalcore(i come from the land of the midwest), punk, and basically any other music(you guys might not call it that) that teenagers tend to play. Obviously, the people i record will mainly be teenagers. Allow me to totally reiterate the reason i started this thread: I WANT A GOOD SOUNDING BASIC SETUP THAT I CAN BEGIN(EMPHASIS ON BEGIN) TO START AS A SORT OF SIDEJOB. Okay, understand? I just want to start something that i can charge kids 20 or 25 bones to record on per hour. All I want to know is "what should i buy to get a better recording quality than my Fostex DMT-8?" So, maybe in the next posts, we can all spare the unneccesary professional "i remember those days" talk and cut to the chase. What are THE basics i need to get a DECENT(in your eyes [and ears]) quality? That's all folks. Oh yeah, Tex. Aren't you the lucky one?
 
I know of just the place who could use someone like you: www.fullsail.com
Click to expand...

There, or The Recording Workshop, or Juliard.

As the others have said, after you graduate HS, I would think about going to school to learn how to do this professionally and work for someone else for awhile. It's the only way to get into the business at first.

You're not gonna open a pro studio for 5K. Ask Granny to send you to college instead and buy a four-track to learn on.
 
You were posting the same time I was. I didn't see it until after I had posted.

You didn't say you had any sort of a recorder already. What's the matter with the Fostex?

You can always add to what you already have. I came very close to buying that same unit back in '94/'95, but stayed in analog instead.

Buy some decent mics, a nice compressor, and a couple of outboards, some decent monitors and go to it.

$5K will go along way to improving the sound of your Fostex, just don't plan on producing any platinum albums in your garage.

The ADAT and a Mackie console is a good choice too, but I think I'd see how business goes with the Fostex before sinking a ton of money into this project if all you want to do are outside gigs.

If you want to do it for yourself, then your wallet is the limit.
 
alright. I gotta admit that I'm astounded with how clear the question is here and how people are ignoring you, close. You've got some fat cats answering your Q the way they want without paying attention to the way you've qualified over your last posts. I certainly don't have the same experience as these dudes but at least I can read a question and understand what's being asked.

With that said, Richie's advice makes sense to me. Although I am already a computer nerd so I use a pc/delta soundcard setup.

but yeah, reading and possibly interning with a local stud will help. I've been told the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement handbook is a bible of sorts.

miles
 
You've already been given some good suggestions, most notably the one from Tex about the M12/HD24. I still can't believe so many people are taking you seriously enough to give gear advice and think it's a disservice, but that combo is definitely capable of very, very high quality recordings.

The problem is that it will take a hell of a lot more than plugging in nice gear to attract "kids" willing to part with $25/hr. Judging by some of the questions you've posed in this thread, it's time and experience you need, not money. That's not a put down, it's a fact that will save you much more than money.
 
Re: To my oh so condescending teachers...

CloseYourEyes said:
I just want to start something that i can charge kids 20 or 25 bones to record on per hour.
Click to expand...
Go to http://www.bluebearsound.com ...

Click on Equipment.......

THAT extremely modest list (by "the majors" standards) is what you need to start with if you plan on charging people for engineering services and giving them the flexibility they need to realize their projects.......

More importantly than the gear anyways -- you need to develop some engineering skills before you should feel qualified or justified enough in getting people to pay you......

I think you're going about this all wrong -- start with the basic gear, LEARN IT and develop your recording skills, THEN worry about putting something together once you have your shit together........!

Good luck...........
 
Okay, first of all: thank you very much, you guys have all been very helpful. With all humility, i'm taking your posts seriously.

Second, i'm no longer content w/ the sound quality of my Fostex. It only has 1/4" jacks, a small hard drive(12 minutes of music!?!!?!) and no CD burner. I guess really, all i need is whatever will fix these problems.

Tex's suggestions sound about what i'm looking for right now. Vurt, about taking me seriously, you were once a studio-ignorant person yourself so just because some people are actually polite w/ their opinions, dont get all confused. There ARE nice people out there. Thank you everyone(even Vurt) and especially miles for understanding.
 
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