piano mics

[cerulean]

Hi everyone.. Just recently purchased a VF16 and now I am looking at buying some mics to do some piano recording with (both solo & with other instruments/singers) -- The musical style will be mostly jazz/contemporary christian however I do plan on recording an occasional classical song.

The pianos I will be recording on consist of a 6' Steinway (c. 1910), 6' Petrof (1996) but will probably also eventually record on other pianos as well (gigs/tours/etc..)

The Steinway is a living room piano (I'm thinking this will cause me to setup close mics under the lid w/blanket) and the Petrof is in a church (the church is large ~1100 seats)

I would like to keep the price for the pair (I'm assuming it would need to be a pair) under $300 .. From what I understand, many of you like using/recommend the MXL603's, SP B1 or B3, MK012's..

A quick question about the MXL603 .. I heard that they perform best from a distance (which I assume means in the room so it will pick up a lot more of the room?) and will distort when being close. Is this true or was the post I read a problem with that particular mic/setup?

Thanks for any advice regarding the mic selection..

 

[Beezoboy]

I close mic'ed a piano with 603's in a recital hall. I have reverb on it but you can listen to it here. The piano is a 6' Steinway probably from the 70's or early 80's.

There is a bit of reverb on both and the trumpet goes out of tune, but I think the piano sounds pretty good. I am sure you could do better, as I only had about 10 minutes to work on setup of both mics.

Chain = 2 MXL603 -> Aardvark q10 -> CoolEditPro ->Waves Rverb

I would check out the Rode NT5 also. They are supposedly pretty nice.

Beezoboy

 

[chessrock]

A quick question about the MXL603 .. I heard that they perform best from a distance (which I assume means in the room so it will pick up a lot more of the room?) and will distort when being close. Is this true or was the post I read a problem with that particular mic/setup?

I think that may have been refering to close-micing of drums. I wouldn't worry about it on piano.

 

[darnold]

im interested to know how you got the trumpet sound more than the piano.

danny

 

[littledog]

For close mic'ing grands, I prefer small omnis. That way there is no proximity effect from the strings closest to the mic, and off-axis coloration is not a problem.

For $80, you might want to try the Behringer ECM 8000's. That still leaves you enough out of your $300 to wade through the Guitar Center stock of MC012's to try and find a decent pair.

 

[Michael Jones]

For close mic'ing grands, I prefer small omnis. That way there is no proximity effect from the strings closest to the mic, and off-axis coloration is not a problem.

For $80, you might want to try the Behringer ECM 8000's. That still leaves you enough out of your $300 to wade through the Guitar Center stock of MC012's to try and find a decent pair.

Is it not true that with small omni's room sound/ambience weighs heavily in the equation of getting a good sound? Even more so than with a pair of SD's?
I recorded this :http://artists.iuma.com/site-bin/streammp3.m3u?286662
with the ECM8000's on my 7'-2" Boston Grand and while it may be a passible recording, it seems to lack any real pizaz, which I would attribute to the room in conjunction with omni directional mics.
We all have our own favorite ways of recording piano, but I really like a pair of SM81's into a quality pre-amp for recording my piano, in my room...at half past 8 on weekends and holidays, and every day in May.

 

[chessrock]

it seems to lack any real pizaz, which I would attribute to the room in conjunction with omni directional mics.

I would think their self-noise would probably be about the biggest issue . . . at least from my experience with them.

 

[littledog]

In answer to both Michael and Chessrock, I was recommending them specifically for CLOSE mic'ing a grand. That way the ratio of direct to room noise is very high. And your signal level should be hot enough so that self-noise shouldn't be too much of a problem. You may want to experiment with lid positions (including removing it). I actually lined the inside of my lid to reduce reflected sound.

I admit, though, that I am using Earthworks QTC's which are much quieter than the Behringers. (They also cost almost 20 times as much...)

 

[cerulean]

multi ecm8000s?

I think this falls under a noobie question but I'll ask anyways..

What does multiple omni's give you over just one? Since its not directional, wouldn't it pick up everything the same and therefore multiple close-mic omni's would be redundant?

Also, anyone have some info on how low the self-noise is on the MXL603 mics? Currently I have been simply using one SM57 to just try different mic positions, etc and it seems to have quite a bit of noise (not sure if that is from the mic or something else.. ) -- granted, after the recording is done, its not terribly noisy (now the pickup/mic that I'm currenlty using on the Petrof is definitely very noisy.. (not sure of the make/model))

Another noobie question -- whats the difference between a large diaphragm condenser vs a small diaphragm condenser (ie StudioProjects B1 vs MXL603)? thanks..

 

[jnorman]

pair of km184s into a HV-3B. i think it is a mistake to try and mic a $10,000 piano with $50 mics.

 

[littledog]

Re: multi ecm8000s?

I think this falls under a noobie question but I'll ask anyways..

What does multiple omni's give you over just one? Since its not directional, wouldn't it pick up everything the same and therefore multiple close-mic omni's would be redundant?

Only if you close mic'ed them as a coincident pair. I'm assuming they will be at least 12" or more apart. Then they can produce a wonderful stereo image on a piano. Depending on how close you are mic'ing, if they are too far apart you will actually create the illusion of a 30 foot wide piano unless you pan the tracks back towards eachother.

If you don't believe that two omnis can create a stereo image try it yourself sometime. Also, often they are used in live classical/concert hall recordings, and there is certainly no problem with lack of stereo image on those.

 

[Sennheiser]

I like a pair of MD-441's myself. They sound great for close miking a piano.

OK, OK, yeah, I know already.

 

[darrin_h2000]

quote:
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Originally posted by cerulean
I think this falls under a noobie question but I'll ask anyways..

What does multiple omni's give you over just one? Since its not directional, wouldn't it pick up everything the same and therefore multiple close-mic omni's would be redundant?

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The strings that those mics are closer to will be louder, alot of variables will come into play using ecm8000s. ive used them under the lid with a studio monitor inside and my midi piano with the dampers open. perfect tuning with a feel of real strings