Need Some Advice On Band Members

[christiaan]

I have a very close friend (in fact, one of my best) and she has an incredible singing voice. We recorded a song in a studio two months ago. I wrote that song and liked the feel of the demo that we recorded at my place very much, especially how she sang it. In the studio, she felt the urge to put a bit more of herself in the song which in my opinion did the song no good. So I told her. "I don't like what you're doing here". In other words: Please do it as I intended it.
She gave me that "man, what are you talking about, no-one ever complains about my singing"-look (no-one really does, she IS very good, so she's spoiled) and I ended up with a recording that is nice, especially considering the time between writing and recording the whole song but gives me a feeling like "*sigh*, it could have been much better if she wasn't so stubborn" every time I listen it back.
To make a long story short: I think that our talents combined would be promising for the future but we don't like eachothers attitudes in the studio. So we just decided to forget about making music together and cherish the friendship we have.

In the meantime I've been working with another singer. She's less talented (as she claims herself as well) still very good. Very involved, very passionate about songwriting and totally open for suggestions and not afraid to criticize my work BEFORE final recordings. It was really great to work together. Very inspireing both ways.


My final thoughts:

KICK THAT GUITAR PLAYER OUT!

 

[guhlenn]

christiaan,

i don't think it was a mutual cooperation the way you tell it. YOU said it had to be different... i can see no compromise in the text... Unless you're paying her i think it's very rude...

Guhlenn

 

[christiaan]

Studio time is too expensive to waste on debates. We had just one evening to record the whole song. If she didn't like it the way she sang it on the demo she should have come to me earlier. I'm open for compromises, not for unpleasant surprises.

I'm not going to argue about if I was rude or not. I probably was and I don't care much about that in this particular case. I at least think that I should not have kept my mouth.

Your input is appreciated though, guhlenn. And I realize as someone with little studio experience I should tackle possible problems like this beforehand.

You know what the really stupid part in this all is?
She did like the demo when we just recorded it. Then we let her boyfriend listen to it. He didn't like it. In fact, he had not a single good word to spare.
Dozens of reactions from other people later, his was the only one that was so negative. And yes, Now I understand again that boyfriends are more important than 'just' friends, even if they claim to be hiphopartists but never have written a decent song themselves ever.

I'm sure he was just jealous that I recorded a song with his girlfriend before he did.

But what happened is that it made my friend insecure about the song. She tried to improve it without a proper discussion and imho it backfired.


by the way. The way that she sang the demo was HER interpretation. It was clearly different from the version that I sang as an example. And that afternoon we discussed about backing vocals and all. I liked the demo very much. And then my question is: Why 'fix' what ain't broken?

 

[guhlenn]

So I told her. "I don't like what you're doing here". In other words: Please do it as I intended it.
She gave me that "man, what are you talking about, no-one ever complains about my singing"-look (

ofcourse i aint the person to critisize since i don't know shit about the situatiuon... just a first impression... glad you didn't take it too personal... but the above text does not indicate compromise , it indicates conflict...

OH, and never let the boyfriend hear it before it's finished... People will never see it the way you see it and no matter how gentle they are , if you just put your whole soul into a recording and someone comes in and says" ah, good, but ..." i could kill 'm...


Guhlenn

 

[christiaan]

yeah, at the particular moment that you quoted it became a conflict. true.

The demo got a few 'good but' responses which were legit I guess. That's cool.
But that boyfriend? Well, he wasn't gentle. He was just negative all the way. Well, screw him if he's the only one. Opinions like that then just don't count to me.

But to get back to the thread. If it doesn't come naturally, why bother? A band doesn't necessarily need the best guitar player. You're better off with a good one that cares.

 

[guhlenn]

i play in a band , we've been playing for uhm 6-7 years nowe... i had my part of dthe shit... and i can tell ya, they are my best friends but DAMN sometimes i just wanna grab one at the troath and just squeeze till he turns blue... most of the time we're cool though

sooo, moral of the story, if you are sick of him now think what will happen if you are on the road with him...

PURE HELL

Guhlenn

 

[CDT-sHaG]

I play in a band as well..I sing and play guitar..along with a drummer and bassist.

my attitude is that "chemistry" is the most important element to a group...musical chemistry first...friends second. You ain't gotta be friends to create music....

a solid rhythm section is the main key to ANY band..so if you have that, adding another more dedicated guitarist or just using one guitarist is better than having the 2nd guitarist phucking up your sound.

If you get rid of him though, and your other guitarist doesn't know how to incorporate his parts as well as his own, you will NOT be playing a gig in a month if you play originals or intricate music that requires the "chemistry" I was referring too....

and practicing ALL the time can be counter-productive...the mind needs time to rest sometimes so that you can approach the material fresh.

my 2 cents i found on the sidewalk lol..

 

[64Firebird]

You don't have to be friends to play music, but it helps a lot if your going to be living with them in a van for 6 months! That is the REAL test of a band! The road.

 

[CDT-sHaG]

well..I spent 2 years on "the road"..it's a test all right lol...

get ready to eat ramon noodles and beenie-weenies all the time!!

 

[Badger]

christiaan,

i don't think it was a mutual cooperation the way you tell it. YOU said it had to be different... i can see no compromise in the text... Unless you're paying her i think it's very rude...

Guhlenn

I agree. To me, giving suggestions on how another musician you are working with plays(or sings) something is EXACTLY like giving someone advise on how to raise thier children. Only do it if asked, or if absolutely neccesary...Due it tactfully, and if they reject it, don't push it. Your just gonna piss them off.

But does this apply to DJ's?

 

[Badger]

TO THE OP:
I have had to kick a close friend out of a band on more than one occasion. The first band I was in, the singer was a very close friend, and very talented. But he didnt show up to practice. Eventually, we had no choice but to hire someone else. He just wasnt into playing in a band. I should have talked to him about it sooner, rather than trying to push him. Damn shame too...

That said, I never liked the idea of practicing two or three times a week. I personally think if everyone works on thier shit at home, once a week is plenty...Then again I think that really tight bands are boring, so it could just be personal preferance.

The last band I was in, we were practicing one day a week. I was working a new job that just flat out wore me out, and I needed the extra day off to recuperate. they said that they wanted to practise two days a week, and I told them I was not able. The singer suggested that maybe they needed to find someone who could, and I told them that I agreed with him, that if the band wanted to practice that much, and I couldnt, that they should find someone who could and that was more of the same mind set as they were.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is talk to the guy. Maybe he doesnt even want to be in the band and is staying in just because you are a friend. It might be a relief to him if you found another gtr player. Not everyone wants to be in a working band. Its a lot of hard work and frustration.

Save yourself a lot of grief, just flat out ask him. If he says he does want to stay, then set down a specific set of rules to apply to everyone in the band, about missing rehearsals, etc. Ask him if he thinks he can follow them(make it clear this is applied to everyone, not just him). Go from there.

And EpiSgpl8r, try the decaf buddy....

 

[nfgtaco]

band member

listen up doug-
believe me when i say that you need to let this guy go. i have a band here in dallas and we used to have a bassest who liked to puff da cheeba 24/7. It really didnt bother us untill we had our first gig at this local hangout 'bout a year ago. he showed up to the gig high and played everything sloppy- making us look like a joke. and this is just an example. if you keep this guy in you band and sooner or later he's going to keep your band down. i don't care how good he is - it's irrelivent. you need guys you can trust 110%. we later let the bassest go and believe me - both sides won. But hey do what chu wanna do

peace