My Corona

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notCardio

I walk the line
miroslav

If there's rioting and looting and people killing each other in the streets, would you call out the police and maybe even the National Guard?

Wouldn't that be asking Big Brother to protect you?


And when I say 'fear', I mean a healthy fear, like the fear of fire, heights, lions and snakes. The kind of fear that has kept humans alive for tens of thousands of years.
 
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miroslav

Cosmic Cowboy
Nobody's recommending long-term isolationism, just a relatively temporary semi-quarantine.

Ahh...when our governor and those in a few other states are saying we may be shut down for 9 months or longer...I think you can expect the rioting and looting to come.

At some point reality will set in that maybe the responses and reactions will hurt us 10X more than the virus...but yes, grandma will stay alive, and probably starving to death by end of those nine months or more...not to mention the utter economic chaos and depression that could be triggered...and then you can wonder how many will survive that.

There is reaction...and over reaction. Time will tell what we have right now.

And believe me...I can survive the 9 months or more without a problem, so it's not for any personal fear and worry that I think it's going to be a real problem...but most people won't without serious hurt and loss...so put that in the calculator when tallying up the numbers for COVID-19.
 

miroslav

Cosmic Cowboy
You seem to be missing the point that the growth is exponential, and NO ONE has immunity to it. It is a “novel” coronavirus. No ones been exposed to it before and therefore there is no inherent immunity.

Regardless...already there are many cases of people testing positive, yet never becoming ill...so the immunity may be there because of other factors...healthy life, strong immune system or just the right biology that isn't all that affected by it...or many only have a mild case.

The problem is that many people are in fear of getting it, because they assume it will be the worst for anyone that gets it.

TBH, I don't expect to be infected, and if I am, my odds are pretty good that I will not be terribly affected by it, because I just tend not to get too sick ever.
Highly boosted immune system...and the last time I had the flu, I was in my early 20s...it's so long ago I can't even recall the circumstances.
In public...unless someone sick walked up to me and coughed/sneezed right in my face...I know I won't get infected, because I've practiced social hygiene all my life, to the point it's second nature...I don't even think about it. I just know how to avoid things.
Spent 12 years doing IT work...all day touching everyone's computers, people who were sick at work...etc...never once got sick.

I'm not some superman or anything...it's just that healthy people can avoid this stuff, or have more a minimal reaction to it.
Those at risk...need to take more care...but that doesn't mean we have to lock everyone up for 9 months and wait for this to pass.
I bet come the fall...we will see another variation, again one that no one has immunity to...and what then...lock down for another 9 months...???
There has to be a different approach, and at some point, life needs to go on in some normal way...otherwise, what's the point?
 

Gtoboy

Well-known member
Nobody's recommending long-term isolationism, just a relatively temporary semi-quarantine.

The fact that nobody is "recommending" something has nothing to do with the way people behave when they are driven by fear. Irrational behavior can easily become the norm as history repeatedly shows.
 

Mick Doobie

Resist We Much
What cost is too great? Which cost is too great? Do we utterly destroy the lives of a couple hundred million people or more to potentially prevent the deaths of 20K, 50K, 100K...? This cannot go long term. If everyone cooperates to lay low for say another 3 weeks, we then have to move on with life. What is life if not worth living.

Otherwise, longer term isolation, we're heading for a depression. We can't allow a government to inflict that amount of pain, misery, and suffering upon us....for our own good. Fuck that.

If you have space, i'd suggest begin preparing the soil for a spring planting. Ammo, perhaps buy some, while you can. Learn some new tunes, indulge in a new hobby. Paint a room or two in your home, the investor who buys it might appreciate your efforts come auction time after foreclosure. I wish I was kidding!

Oh well. One foot in front of the other and keep hope alive?
 

dachay2tnr

One Hit Wonder
Do we utterly destroy the lives of a couple hundred million people or more to potentially prevent the deaths of 20K, 50K, 100K...?
The Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918 is estimated to have killed 50 million. Million, not thousands.

And the earth’s population was significantly less at the time.
 

miroslav

Cosmic Cowboy
I don’t disagree. But for my money I’d rather overreact and be wrong, than the opposite.

It's OK for individual to overreact if it makes them feel safer and more comfortable. It's your personal choice.
When it becomes almost dictatorial by state/local governments, where some are already calling for the military to come in, and we are one step away from martial law and curfews...that's a lot of overreaction being imposed without any choices.

I think if they are going to call for lockdowns...they should focus on the hot zones...which are pretty much all in the cities.
That's where they should have locked down right at the start, and kept the spread out into the suburbs and rural areas.
Now, you got some Smalltown USA, no infections and probably too remote to see any...but they have to go into lockdown because of statewide orders.
Those people are usually low income, living on pensions or blue collar jobs where they live pay to pay...and now they got no pay and are told it may be months...and at best, the federal government will toss out as couple of thousand, which is supposed to cover a few months of work shutdown...???

It's going to be a very wrong overreaction if it completely tanks the economy, and in the end, we see marginal mortality rates, no worse than the common flu.
 

dachay2tnr

One Hit Wonder
It's OK for individual to overreact if it makes them feel safer and more comfortable. It's your personal choice.
When it becomes almost dictatorial by state/local governments, where some are already calling for the military to come in, and we are one step away from martial law and curfews...that's a lot of overreaction being imposed without any choices.

I think if they are going to call for lockdowns...they should focus on the hot zones...which are pretty much all in the cities.
That's where they should have locked down right at the start, and kept the spread out into the suburbs and rural areas.
Now, you got some Smalltown USA, no infections and probably too remote to see any...but they have to go into lockdown because of statewide orders.
Those people are usually low income, living on pensions or blue collar jobs where they live pay to pay...and now they got no pay and are told it may be months...and at best, the federal government will toss out as couple of thousand, which is supposed to cover a few months of work shutdown...???

It's going to be a very wrong overreaction if it completely tanks the economy, and in the end, we see marginal mortality rates, no worse than the common flu.
You’re basically describing the path Italy took. How’s that working out?
 

Mickster

Well-known member
It's a little strange for some to be kind of saying that disease causes deaths so this virus is no different. That's sort of saying that every death from this virus is somehow ordained. None can be avoided? None can be saved? Do you want to be the one who could been have but wasn't? Now that's real fear.
 

miroslav

Cosmic Cowboy
It's a little strange for some to be kind of saying that disease causes deaths so this virus is no different. That's sort of saying that every death from this virus is somehow ordained. None can be avoided? None can be saved? Do you want to be the one who could been have but wasn't? Now that's real fear.

No one said none can avoid it or be saved, it's exactly that kind of thinking that drives the fear and panic...but you have to accept that all will not avoid it or be saved.

Modern medicine always tries to save everyone...and fails miserably, often "torturing" someone to death with their efforts to save them.
Sometimes you have to accept the inevitable...and you roll your dice. When my mother was ill, the doctor said "we could do biopsies and then see where to go from there with possible treatments"..etc. She was 86, and didn't want to be tortured to death.
We agreed that at her age, the odds of saving her or extending her life on some bedridden level was of no benefit and would only prolong the illness...and not her quality of life.

Look at the mortality rates of all the other illnesses and diseases...we accept those as part of life, we're so use to them, they never make the headlines anymore.
In the end, this virus will not even cone close to some of the others.
 

Mick Doobie

Resist We Much
The Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918 is estimated to have killed 50 million. Million, not thousands.

And the earth’s population was significantly less at the time.

I'm not an expert, but i've seen nothing that thus far supports this current thing is anything close to that of 1918. It's been a while since I read anything about 1918, but if memory serves folks were passing within 24 hours of the first symptoms. Perhaps it is still too early, but this current thing is all over the world and has yet to approach truly disturbing numbers of deaths. Unsettling, yes. But it ain't 1918, that's just overreacting and spreading fear unnecessarily.
 

Mickster

Well-known member
No one said none can avoid it or be saved, it's exactly that kind of thinking that drives the fear and panic...but you have to accept that all will not avoid it or be saved.

Modern medicine always tries to save everyone...and fails miserably, often "torturing" someone to death with their efforts to save them.
Sometimes you have to accept the inevitable...and you roll your dice. When my mother was ill, the doctor said "we could do biopsies and then see where to go from there with possible treatments"..etc. She was 86, and didn't want to be tortured to death.
We agreed that at her age, the odds of saving her or extending her life on some bedridden level was of no benefit and would only prolong the illness...and not her quality of life.

Look at the mortality rates of all the other illnesses and diseases...we accept those as part of life, we're so use to them, they never make the headlines anymore.
In the end, this virus will not even cone close to some of the others.

Miro.......I essentially agree with pretty much all you said........and I was not saying that all could be saved. I was just trying to point out where the fear was coming from for some.....and that some of the fears could be genuine.
 

dachay2tnr

One Hit Wonder
It's now coming out that the majority of those who died in Italy already had underlying illnesses.
I think people should stop using Italy as the benchmark.

Not sure where your “facts” are coming from, but sure, let’s not look at real world experience. What could we possibly learn from that? :rolleyes:

And I’m guessing any people with underlying conditions deserved to die? Hey, they were sick already, right?
 

notCardio

I walk the line
You’re basically describing the path Italy took. How’s that working out?

And part of the problem with Italy is that they didn't it seriously and take their drastic measures soon enough. Even now, there are still people out walking around like there's no problem.
 

miroslav

Cosmic Cowboy
Miro.......I essentially agree with pretty much all you said........and I was not saying that all could be saved. I was just trying to point out where the fear was coming from for some.....and that some of the fears could be genuine.

Oh for sure...the fear for some is genuine.



Not sure where your “facts” are coming from, but sure, let’s not look at real world experience. What could we possibly learn from that? :rolleyes:

And I’m guessing any people with underlying conditions deserved to die? Hey, they were sick already, right?

:facepalm:

I like how you make a STUPID assumption about my line of thinking, when you suggest I'm saying some people "deserve to die". :rolleyes:
It's exactly this type of illogical stuff that is annoying with this virus. People are responding in extreme, knee-jerk reactions.

My "facts" came from a news article I read...that many of the dead in Italy had preexisting conditions that collapsed when they got the virus.
That's NOT saying that they "deserved to die"...that's just a FACT that needs to be taken into account.
So then if you use Italy as your benchmark for the virus...it will skew your view (which it apparently has), into thinking that death is more possible for anyone getting the virus...but in reality the majority of people recover from the virus. We may not recover for a long time if our USA or even global economy completely tanks due to overreaction.

When we are in month 3-4 (or who knows, maybe month 9) of the shutdown...get back to me then how you feel about things.
For some people, staying home is easy. I can stay home...and most of the elderly can...but the entire population will not be able to for months on end.

If the economy tanks...the fallout will be much worse and more prolonged for everyone, not to mention the next generation or two, and yes, there will even be premature death from that, but it probably won't be as clearly quantified as it is with the virus...so the results of a potential tanked global economy will linger for a decade or two.
Maybe that isn't a real concern for the elderly as much as their immediate health is...but it will be for everyone else.
I'm no spring chicken either, so don't think I don't have my own risks to consider...but living is just as important as life....if you get my meaning.
 
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