Mixer with pre's or individual mic-pre's-on a budget

  • Thread starter Thread starter boriscrispin
  • Start date Start date
B

boriscrispin

New member
Hi all,

I have previously posted on this excellent site along the questioning (and i now see questionable) lines of "how do i make digital recordings sound like analog". Anyway after finding things out that made it clearer to me that analog is not necessarily 'better' than digital, and/or you can get similar sounds with both formats - I have another line of enquiry.

In the previous post it was mentioned that most importantly in recording, (perhaps especially in the jazzy/'open' sound setup i intend to record) are mic placement, room type, mic type and perhaps more importantly mic-preamps. Understanding I am on a budget, I would like to know, what will be better for me in terms of getting something above average in the mic-pre's zone. I can't afford to buy 4 groove tube bricks because if I did, i wouldnt have to be here. So, is it possible to pine after finding a mixer (dare i suggest "vintage"?) that already has good/solid mic-pres? I cast my eye to fancy and expensive things such as the TL AUDIO M1 a sexy tube mixer, now would you use that with its tube driven mic pre's or WITH a standalone mic-pre.

I'm looking for a good solid warm sound to back up the fact that I'm not going to be using £1000 microphones. Can i get a 'good' mixer with mic-pres (and outputs), or will i HAVE to buy individual ones in a more expensive way (unless there are known inexpensive but good mic-pres).....
I have had suggested a SHURE M268 but I'm beginning to think I'll want more than one output, or the option at least.....

Any help
 
personally i'ld go with the mixer solution... you'll get more consistancy from channel to channel... and you wont have mutiples of specialty pre's... ie:a lot of the single channels are prized for a particular sound, as in what it does to a vocal track, and rarely would you be needing multiples of that for a session... hope that made sense... what kinda budget do you have anyhow??
 
yes that seems to make sense for sure
my budget isn't high it has to be said, probably from 200-300 pounds, so like 500 bucks I guess, give or take of course on the particular opportunity.

Having a look online, there is a glut of old mixers out there, but the fear is that I'll not be able to find out whether the mic-pres are crappy, plus, ideally i need about 4 and above tracks that can be grouped into different outputs - this is because the mixer is primarily for getting a fat drum sound, submixed to a single channel (my DAW is 4 inputs, I want to keep it simple).

Bascially I want to sound like david axelrod/rudy van gelder, but for a blink of the price. Solid and warmy. (I know alot of it will be down to recording technique).

Can you recommend any mixers? i've seen a teac 5a.....awful?
 
the 5a was mid 70's vintage... mostlikely need a complete rebuild if not already done... think i'ld look for vlz mackies in that range... 1604 mackie might work well for you...
 
boriscrispin said:
Bascially I want to sound like david axelrod/rudy van gelder, but for a blink of the price. Solid and warmy. (I know alot of it will be down to recording technique).
Click to expand...

rudy van is the man. I equate his sound much more with pristine and crisp than solid and warmy though. what records are you talking about?

that said - check into a little sound workshop board. i forget the name. a 1208? i had a mackie for years. it will work fine for starts as well.

have fun. nice to see someone looking to do what you're doing.

Mike
 
you're right really, Axelrod and Rudy do have different sounds, I think I'm getting at a similar ethic though. It's axelrod's drums i want ultimately. Rudy has that clarity without being thing, that air. Manages to get such gentle piano sounds, he's the best really. (IMHO)

What I'll be recording will (hopefully) be somewhere along the lines of scott walker without the strings, but with more jazz goings on. I could name any van gelder session (sonny clark, grant green etc etc etc), even the CTI stuff. Its weird how you can never find any pictures of Eaglewood cliffs to steal or at least attempt to look at his techniques.

So to the mixer, from a submix I just want one mono track of drums, when it comes to mixing - dangerous of course, but I'm sure with enough testing an ideal balance can be made. I'm not going to freet too much over phasing as it is something I dont really have experience with.

I sourced a photo of Earl Palmer, (axlerod's drummer) to see if there were any telling placements, and it appears two pencil condensers over either side, probably one biased to the snare & a bass drum mic. On most (pre 70's) axelrod, you can flip the pan on his tracks and just hear the lovely thick drums.

So are mackie's generally considered the best for this kind of operation?
Good pre's then?
 
boriscrispin said:
you're right really, Axelrod and Rudy do have different sounds, I think I'm getting at a similar ethic though. It's axelrod's drums i want ultimately. Rudy has that clarity without being thing, that air. Manages to get such gentle piano sounds, he's the best really. (IMHO)

What I'll be recording will (hopefully) be somewhere along the lines of scott walker without the strings, but with more jazz goings on. I could name any van gelder session (sonny clark, grant green etc etc etc), even the CTI stuff. Its weird how you can never find any pictures of Eaglewood cliffs to steal or at least attempt to look at his techniques.

So to the mixer, from a submix I just want one mono track of drums, when it comes to mixing - dangerous of course, but I'm sure with enough testing an ideal balance can be made. I'm not going to freet too much over phasing as it is something I dont really have experience with.

I sourced a photo of Earl Palmer, (axlerod's drummer) to see if there were any telling placements, and it appears two pencil condensers over either side, probably one biased to the snare & a bass drum mic. On most (pre 70's) axelrod, you can flip the pan on his tracks and just hear the lovely thick drums.

So are mackie's generally considered the best for this kind of operation?
Good pre's then?
Click to expand...

the 10 or 15 times i've been fortunate enough to record jazz drummers you have so much freedom in mic technique as they can balance themselves so well. mixing to mono isn't so scary.

i love rudy but i do like the atlantic stuff. they got more bass. but yeah rude is brilliant. hubtones is one of my faves for sound. i'm not sure i've ever heard of axlerod.

mackies will be a good place to start. the top end clarity that rudy gets might be hard to eek out of a mackie though. check into the soundwork shop 1208. you wont regret that...plus it's portable. i have a 34. great board for way cheap.

Mike
 
well, they look awesome, what are the chances of me getting one over in the UK here!?

Anything similar so I can build up some sort of shortlist...?

Mackie....Sound Workshop....?
 
well at 500 bucks your list will be pretty short. no offense - but you are asking for somewhat of the impossible in that range. you'll get 'decent' consumer stuff with the exception of the sound workshop stuff which is really pretty great IMO.

i also like studiomaster stuff which you should be able to find over there way cheap. thick sounding boards...somewhat noisey...but way better than the mackie.

good luck!

Mike
 
on the other side of the pond??? maybe you should look for used soundcraft??? toft???
 
yes my budget will naturally always be an issue, if I simply can't get what Im after with a 500 dollar limit then I'll probably have to go higher. And yes, I'm UK based, which I think in terms of 'options' is a bit unfortunate.

I'm aware of Soundcraft as a friend of mine has their 'recent' two input compact thing, and to be honest its not greatly impressive - what soundcraft models would i really be after?

Checking out the TOFT website, they look a bit more like dream-machines than a reality!

I appreciate your input here guys as I'm going to have to get some sort of options list to attempt to trowl ebay for
 
studiomaster is your side of the pond and in your price range. i'd check one of those out for sure.

Mike
 
the last one on the list there. the newer ones i don't think are the same type of thing. they are really 'meaty'...if you have a crisper mic for the overheads it might couple well for the drum overheads.

before i bought my soundworkshop this past year - i had a ghost - before the ghost i had a studiomaster that i sold. i always wanted the studiomaster back. cool sound. mixed a jazz record on it from 2 da38s to a cheap panasonic cd recorder with a tc300 as an effects unit - ghettostyle!:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=30127330

'hot mama samba.' the mix on there has no mastering done either - the whole cd either actually it sounded good as is - so that's how the board sounds...not the pres...but the board.

Mike
 
thanks, nice track man. I've only got listening on my laptop shitty speakers at the moment, but still sounds nicely airy. Well recorded sax by the way,

So let me get this straight, because I really am new to the idea of adding a mixer into the...mix.
So this is lame but....you recorded using other mic pre's? onto something...? then fed the individual tracks back into the mixer, which then went direct to disc?? i have to get my head round "tracking" and "mixing" on one desk at different times.....
Are the pre's not so great?

(I'll still search for the workshop big boy though, how much did you pay for it? Also would it be ludicrous to try and get one shipped over should I ever get the chance - i mean, is it realllllly that good? Because for no other reason than maybe the colour scheme, i really fancy it. well the pre's and eq sound pretty hot too ALSO can you group tracks to outputs? i.e could i get say tracks 1-3 to go to one output whilst still using other ones DOES IT HAVE DIRECT OUTS my god, i'll never find one.)
 
i would check the sound on sound forums for a equip sales forum... it would be less likely to find a steal (they will mostlikely know better)... but may expose you to all kinds of goodies over there... Oram would also be a good name to look for... also trident...
 
boriscrispin said:
thanks, nice track man. I've only got listening on my laptop shitty speakers at the moment, but still sounds nicely airy. Well recorded sax by the way,

So let me get this straight, because I really am new to the idea of adding a mixer into the...mix.
So this is lame but....you recorded using other mic pre's? onto something...? then fed the individual tracks back into the mixer, which then went direct to disc?? i have to get my head round "tracking" and "mixing" on one desk at different times.....
Are the pre's not so great?

(I'll still search for the workshop big boy though, how much did you pay for it? Also would it be ludicrous to try and get one shipped over should I ever get the chance - i mean, is it realllllly that good? Because for no other reason than maybe the colour scheme, i really fancy it. well the pre's and eq sound pretty hot too ALSO can you group tracks to outputs? i.e could i get say tracks 1-3 to go to one output whilst still using other ones DOES IT HAVE DIRECT OUTS my god, i'll never find one.)
Click to expand...

i bought the soundworkshop because i heard one before and because there's a guy here who works on them. the studiomaster's drawback was everything was on your side of the pond or i would have been tempted to go that route.

yes i used outboard preamps on that track - hardy's and apis. one mic per instrument to a da38 multitrack. then i mixed tha thru the studiomaster to the cd burner. the preamps in the studiomaster are not dogs though...you could get by with em. the tracks at that myspace page that are listed above hot mama samba actually sound good and that's the sax player's motu set up. nothing fancy.

the soundworkshop is a cut above the more "home stuff" it was 30K in its day. still the studiomaster is a fine board.

put it this way - i have a remote project this weekend tracking a blues band...i'd have no problem if i had to use studiomaster mic pres. i wouln't think twice...i'd go to work!

good luck,

Mike
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
NEWBIE - Equipment Recommendations - Recording Electric Guitar Cabs
Replies
9
Views
2K
DrewPeterson7
DrewPeterson7
C
Input levels and configuring analog preamps with audio interface.
2
Replies
20
Views
3K
rob aylestone
rob aylestone
Q
Measuring the Noise Floors of my ART Tube Preamps
Replies
7
Views
1K
ecc83
E
CoolCat
Chandler Limited TG L
Replies
8
Views
915
CoolCat
CoolCat
rob aylestone
Radio Mics and cables.
Replies
13
Views
4K
neaxudos
neaxudos
Back
Top