Maximizing double tracking vocals

[dvincent]

Hi everybody. I am wondering if anyone of you "Home Pros" can help me to maximize the double tracking effect. When I did it on my choruses in one of my song rough mixes, it just sounds a little wobbly and uneven and not special or more powerful. Am I hoping for too much I wonder? Should one track be panned or have different effects than the other or should they be the same? How can I make this double tracking REALLY stand out? Thanks for any ideas. We re recording on Pro Tools and my engineer lets me use his real expensive microphone.

 

[chessrock]

We re recording on Pro Tools and my engineer lets me use his real expensive microphone.

Boy, that must be really swell and peachy, Dvincent.


On the subject of maximizing the doubling of vocals, there's really only one thing to remember, and that is that you have to make sure that the second take is almost identical to the first. And by this, I mean your inflections have to be the same, the timing has to be the same, your pitch has to be right on, etc.

A lot of guys just naturally do very consistent takes, and those are the easiest voices to double. Some other guys will just do things a little different every time (stessing different words; slightly varying inflections, etc.) . . . nothing wrong with that, of course, just that it's more difficult to make the doubling of the vocals work, because it sounds exactly like you describe it: uneven and lacking power.

The only rememdy for that is to listen back to the first take over and over and study how everything was timed and phrased, and try your best to duplicate it -- it might take 5 or 6 tries (maybe more), but eventually you'll nail it if you're patient.

 

[guttadaj]

So no different treatment or positioning of the doubled track? Not even a different preamp or mic or anything? Just a close-to-identical additional take is the whole trick to it? Don't you get a lot mud by having close to the same 2 tracks always fighting over the same frequencies? Or does it somehow turn out to be good mud? Sorta like a mud pie or... mud wrestling?

Very curious about this too, cuz whenever I've tried it, I've had the same results dvincent was having. I just chalked it up to the fact that nobody was letting me use their real expensive mic. Or that I was unclear on the concept, as is so often the case... Maybe it's as simple as I just haven't been concentrating on duplicating the performance as much as I should have been...?

Thanks,
-Jeff

 

[Phosphene]

Me and my good friend recorded 10 songs a few weeks ago and I made him do at least 2 tracks of his vocals, along with some whisper tracks and harmonies/octaves. Like Chess said, some people are very consistant in their takes and that sure does help. We recorded the doubles and he didn't listen to himself, he just did it and they were all very close, but just "off" by a few milliseconds to fatten it up very nicely. No need for chorus or anything. I'll probably use the double vocals for alot of his choruses and a few primo spots.

BTW, we used same mic, same pre, same settings, but you can mix and match. If you don't want to practice it, you can take one track and copy it to another track and insert like 10ms of delay onto it. That'll work too. As fas as panning goes, on doubles, I typically do a 11oclock/2oclock split. Sometimes I get crazy and pan them all the way left and right....that's living on the edge...

 

[chessrock]

you can take one track and copy it to another track and insert like 10ms of delay onto it.

That's really not the same. What that is is a short delay; like a fast slapback, and it's a different effect entirely.

So no different treatment or positioning of the doubled track? Not even a different preamp or mic or anything?

Sure. Knock yourself if you want (or if you just like creating more work for yourself). You'll want to pan them differently, of course, but other than that, there are no set rules.

Don't you get a lot mud by having close to the same 2 tracks always fighting over the same frequencies?

If they're the same instrument (voice) doing the same thing, then they're not exactly fighting, now, are they?

 

[Treeline]

I think the idea is that as much as you try to make the tracks identical, they will not be. The subtle differences will come out as a more complex vocal image. Think of it as using cayenne in your cooking. A little is magic; a little more and you have to toss the whole thing in the trash and begin again. So work on doing a fresh track and try to sing it identically to the first, knowing that it is impossible to do so. You're after that subtle difference.

 

[Phosphene]

That's really not the same. What that is is a short delay; like a fast slapback, and it's a different effect entirely.

True. It's different than singing it twice, and I usually prefer to sing it twice instead of relying on short delay to thicken the vocals, but it is an option....
just panning them opposite and make sure they are the same level. It's an easy out, but it usually doesn't sound as good to me. Just an idea...

 

[dvincent]

Ok, Thanks for the ideas. Boy, you guys sure go around in circles on this one. It appears that the only important things to do are: 1. sing identical (I know that), 2. pan them out at 10 and 2 or 11 and 2 or whatever.

 

[TexRoadkill]

I usually don't pan the double if it's for a lead vocal. Just the backups.

 

[btr31]

Ok, Thanks for the ideas. Boy, you guys sure go around in circles on this one. It appears that the only important things to do are: 1. sing identical (I know that), 2. pan them out at 10 and 2 or 11 and 2 or whatever.

just a question....if you pan them 11 and 2, wouldn't that be uneaven and make the vocals stand out on one side?

 

[dvincent]

yes it seems they would be uneven unless you adjusted the volume accordingly? and us a REAL expensive mike!!

 

[ez_willis]

yes it seems they would be uneven unless you adjusted the volume accordingly? and us a REAL expensive mike!!

I don't think he was still waiting for an answer. Patience is a virtue, but come on....

 

[Greg_L]

yes it seems they would be uneven unless you adjusted the volume accordingly? and us a REAL expensive mike!!

Yeah the expensive mic makes all the difference.

 

[Zed10R]

1) 2 takes as identical as possible

2) SLIGHT panning l&r..to taste.

3) go easy on the verb and chorus...a little of each can really make doubled vocals shine

4) take your time with the eq...you will probably cut some upper mids that will build up due to the dubling. Listen for a while and adjust in little increments.

5) see step 1 and take it seriously.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I don't think he was still waiting for an answer. Patience is a virtue, but come on....

From Reuters news service:

Kickapoo, MS - The cobwebbed skeletal remains of a man missing since May of 2004 were found in his home today, seated in a chair in his office staring into a computer screen. The man apparently died waiting for a response to a question he had posted on an Internet recording forum almost three years ago. The moderator of that forum could not be reached for comment.



G.

 

[zed32]

From Reuters news service:

Kickapoo, MS - The cobwebbed skeletal remains of a man missing since May of 2004 were found in his home today, seated in a chair in his office staring into a computer screen. The man apparently died waiting for a response to a question he had posted on an Internet recording forum almost three years ago. The moderator of that forum could not be reached for comment.



G.

"A long ass fuckin' time ago, In a town called Kickapoo..."

 

[Ironklad Audio]

jesus christ...make it easy on yourself and track with two different mics at once

maybe not the best way to do it in ALL situation, but it can sure help to have 2 tracks of the same take, each sounding a little different from the other

 

[FALKEN]

point 1 - double tracking vocals is LAME

point 2 - not sure where all this panning stuff comes from, I used to just drop the volume of the doubled track so that it was barely audible.

 

[bigwillz24]

I'll pan them in rap vocals... In rock I'll go 12 o'clock... In Jazz I won't double... Every mix calls for something differant.

 

[rayc]

I use the mowtown exciter process on the lesser of the two vocals & add splashes and dashes or phrases from it as required by riding/automating the fader.