Leak of Roe v Wade court decision

Is okay to leak court information -- to terrify people into accepting what you want?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 2 100.0%

  • Total voters
    2

RFR

Well-known member
I found an extremely interesting video on how Japan deals with abortion. I’m not endorsing nor dismissing this video, but found it highly fascinating.

 

WWLaidback

Well-known member
And that is very good of you to want to help your daughter, of course. The issue arises when people don’t have the capacity to support themselves, let alone their kids or their kids’ kids. In that situation, which again is quite common, those kids are screwed.

I treat my pets better than that.
If I have too many then I go to the trouble to find a good owner.
It only requires that I care enough.
 
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WWLaidback

Well-known member
Everyone wants to help their grandchildren. Not everyone has the means or the capability to do so.
Then put them up for adoption.
I'm pretty sure there's a waiting list.
New borns are in the highest demand.

PS: I heard abortion clinics are a really depressing place to work.
 
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maxmax77

Member
I treat my pets better than that.
If I have too many then I go to the trouble to find a good owner.
It only requires that I care enough.
But realistically, that isn’t how things happen. The fact that people should do that does not mean that everyone does. So regardless of how or why it happens (and I believe there is much, much more at play than people not caring enough about their children to find them good homes), we still end up with kids in foster homes, homeless, without enough food, abused, etc.

What people ought to do doesn’t change what is actually happening. “Should” is not a solution to the problem of tens of thousands of unwanted children being born. That will still happen either way, even if you think that people should just care more.

The wife said if we waited long enough until we can afford kids, then we wouldn't have any.
Everyone’s situation is different, and being able to “afford” kids is a very different thing for people who have different levels of income. I’m not sure what your financial situation is like, but did you ever have to decide between paying rent and feeding your kids?

When I was 22, I had my first bipolar episode. I couldn’t hold down a job, pay rent, or afford food. I lost 40 pounds in 2 months (wound up 125 pounds as a 5’10” male). If my parents didn’t have the resources to support me—which many parents don’t—I’d be an unmedicated homeless lunatic, causing trouble for myself and everyone else. Lots of people end up like that, and I’m so lucky that I didn’t. Making abortion illegal means more kids like me end up born, and into much more difficult situations. Even the trauma of being unwanted is enough to fuck a kid up, all else aside.
 

maxmax77

Member
I found an extremely interesting video on how Japan deals with abortion. I’m not endorsing nor dismissing this video, but found it highly fascinating.

Just watched it. These comments are directed at the video, and while it’s definitely a critique, that isn’t meant to be an insult to anyone here (as the person who linked it said, you don’t endorse the video and just found it interesting).

That sort of temple situation seems like a great (and very Buddhist—I spent 6 months in Eastern Asia studying Buddhism from an anthropology angle) way to process the abortion for the mom and/or family. The grief of abortion can be super real. And when women get abortions in the US it is often a really, really difficult experience for them—just as it is in Asia. Because yeah, it’s a growing human, a child which is currently in the womb growing as a fetus (let’s also accept that both the word fetus and child are accurate, and most accurate when used in combination, but each side prefers to use the one or the other term because it makes them sound more correct). I’m sure some of my friends have gotten abortions but literally noone ever talks about it, because it’s a really hard and sad thing to talk about.

The people protesting are doing so for the right to have abortions, not because they think we should be getting abortions left and right at the drop of a hat, just for fun, with no thought for the value of human life. They want the individual to have the freedom to make that decision, under the premise that they know what is best for them and for their unborn child.

I think though that this video also falls victim to the exact party-line BS that it discusses. The same BS comes with every single news segment in the US, from CBS to Fox News. This video, coming from a right leaning perspective, naturally paints the pro-life team as an underdog, up against all the universities, corporations, government, etc. who are all somehow in a vast co-conspiracy together against the equally-homogenous group of people who the video identifies as losing this culture war. Even as tribalism and the internal rift in the US is identified as the issue in this video, that tribalism is reinforced by that narrative of “everyone versus us” the video purports. In addition, the pictures that accompany the tribalism narrative are all of left wing protestors. If you want to have a conversation about tribalism, include pictures of both tribes (e.g. planned parenthood protestors, Westboro baptist church, etc).

I see this shit all the time in liberal circles too, no exception. It’s just how we reaffirm our tribal identities and connect with the people in the one of two over-generalized parties that our society forces us to adopt, or wind up without a tribe.

I’ll reiterate my earlier sentiment: there is no solution to abortion that doesn’t produce suffering, it’s just a question of what kind of suffering you want to create. Neither side is considering the whole issue, and if either wants to have the better argument (or even begin to address the counter narratives of the opposing party in a constructive way), they have to at least consider the opposition’s views while also confronting the innate biases that their own group brings to the table.
 

WWLaidback

Well-known member
But realistically, that isn’t how things happen. The fact that people should do that does not mean that everyone does. So regardless of how or why it happens (and I believe there is much, much more at play than people not caring enough about their children to find them good homes), we still end up with kids in foster homes, homeless, without enough food, abused, etc.

What people ought to do doesn’t change what is actually happening. “Should” is not a solution to the problem of tens of thousands of unwanted children being born. That will still happen either way, even if you think that people should just care more.


Everyone’s situation is different, and being able to “afford” kids is a very different thing for people who have different levels of income. I’m not sure what your financial situation is like, but did you ever have to decide between paying rent and feeding your kids?

When I was 22, I had my first bipolar episode. I couldn’t hold down a job, pay rent, or afford food. I lost 40 pounds in 2 months (wound up 125 pounds as a 5’10” male). If my parents didn’t have the resources to support me—which many parents don’t—I’d be an unmedicated homeless lunatic, causing trouble for myself and everyone else. Lots of people end up like that, and I’m so lucky that I didn’t. Making abortion illegal means more kids like me end up born, and into much more difficult situations. Even the trauma of being unwanted is enough to fuck a kid up, all else aside.

Why not terminate everyone that is inconvenient to have around?
The unborn, the elderly, etc.?
I don't want to live in a society like that.
Do you?
 

maxmax77

Member
Why not terminate everyone that is inconvenient to have around?
I don't want to live in a society like that.
Do you?
Of course not. But I see a honor and courage in letting a newborn born gracefully pass onto their next life, rather than forcing them into a lifelong crucible of virtually-guaranteed suffering. to adopt the Buddhist narrative, at least in the next life they have a shot at a happy one.

*edited for clarity
 

WWLaidback

Well-known member
rather than forcing them into a lifelong crucible of virtually-guaranteed suffering.
Suffering in life is garanteed for everyone, even the wealthy.
It is especially bad for the elderly.
Find a witness that says, "gee I wish I was aborted instead", and you will find an atheist.
 
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maxmax77

Member
Find your witnesses that say, "gee I wish I was aborted instead".
Happy to: me.

Since I was born I’ve had crippling flares of fevers, arthritis, and fatigue because I was born with an autoimmune disease. I have bipolar I disorder. I’m doing fine in my life, I’m happy, but I will never have children because I don’t want them to go through what I’ve gone through. And that’s without financial hardship. I’ve made peace with my lot, I have friends, and life is good, but I absolutely would have skipped this one.

This is absolutely not make a big accusation or claim about how to see the world, but I don’t think you realize how many people in this world would rather not be in it. Life is so full of suffering, and others can only help so much to alleviate it. I mean, think about all of the musicians out there who have been so awfully sad, it’s not uncommon
 

WWLaidback

Well-known member
“They both decided that this was going to be the end,” Jake Slates, a California Highway Patrol investigator was quoted by the AP. “That if they can’t have their kids that nobody was going to have those kids.”

 

maxmax77

Member
“They both decided that this was going to be the end,” Jake Slates, a California Highway Patrol investigator was quoted by the AP. “That if they can’t have their kids that nobody was going to have those kids.”

What a tragic situation.

With that I’m going to step out of this thread, I don’t think I have anything else to constructively contribute.
 

WWLaidback

Well-known member
Happy to: me.

Since I was born I’ve had crippling flares of fevers, arthritis, and fatigue because I was born with an autoimmune disease. I have bipolar I disorder. I’m doing fine in my life, I’m happy, but I will never have children because I don’t want them to go through what I’ve gone through. And that’s without financial hardship. I’ve made peace with my lot, I have friends, and life is good, but I absolutely would have skipped this one.

This is absolutely not make a big accusation or claim about how to see the world, but I don’t think you realize how many people in this world would rather not be in it. Life is so full of suffering, and others can only help so much to alleviate it. I mean, think about all of the musicians out there who have been so awfully sad, it’s not uncommon
Well I'm sorry to hear that max.
My wife hasn't had a good day in more than 30 years.
Sometimes she wishes it was over.
I think all of us have felt that way sometime in their life.
We were given a life.
My sister has an autistic son that is completely unmanageable, and unable to work, but she never thought he should just die.
The difference is that we believe in a creator.
 

LazerBeakShiek

Well-known member
If there is ever a true urgency, politics will not solve it. You would die first.

This thing is for people that get along. We dont even speak the same version of English to each other anymore.
 
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Mick Doobie

Resist We Much
What a tragic situation.

With that I’m going to step out of this thread, I don’t think I have anything else to constructively contribute.

While I don't agree with everything you have said, I commend you on how you said it. I'm glad you have made it through the hardships you have suffered. A word of advice, if I may. Don't get too wrapped up in the discussions here. While on occasion amusing and enjoyable, often it is a downward spiral to frustration and anxiety where nothing really gets solved other than point scoring for either side. If one attempts to negotiate the middle, it is a lost cause.

Sometimes life seems short, other times long. Maybe both is happening at the same time. There is enjoyment and pleasure, and there is suffering. Again, perhaps both is happening at the same time, they are where you find them. An overabundance of either can lead to the other. A balance, a dance, if you will.

Dance.
 
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