"large diaphragm dynamic"? - and other mic questions

[wes480]

I have a game plan for what i want to buy mic wise within the next 4 months or so...to basically "complete" my collection for now.

I'm interested in getting two of the much talked about dynamic mics, the EV RE-20, and the Sennheiser MD441.

My first question is whether a lot of people get pairs of these kinds of mics? I definitely won't be just becuase of budget, but they do seem more like "solo" mics to me.

Question on the RE-20, I saw on some review sites people calling it a "large diaphragm dynamic". Dynamic mics don't generally have diaphragms do they? Can someone explain please.

I know I'd like to use the RE-20 esp. for kick drum, I am not sure what all I would end up using the 441 for. However I do want to have another "nice dynamic" to choose from. So I am not positive I want to get that...but if someone wants to talk me into it please do.

Now, one other issue. For another flavor in instrument miking, I want to get a pair of one of the following:

Octava MC012
Neumann KM184
Shure SM81

Those are basically suited for the same purposes. Really, I could justify picking any 2 pairs from above - but, they would have to be different enough for me to do that. I read so much about the Octavas that i want them, yet the Shures are such a classic. Of course the Neumanns are according to some "another world".

What about just between the MC012s and the SM81s - what would you guys choose?

-wes

 

[chessrock]

My first question is whether a lot of people get pairs of these kinds of mics? I definitely won't be just becuase of budget, but they do seem more like "solo" mics to me.

You're right in the sense that there isn't a lot of stereo micing going on with dynamics. I'm sure it's done, but it isn't very common.

Question on the RE-20, I saw on some review sites people calling it a "large diaphragm dynamic". Dynamic mics don't generally have diaphragms do they? Can someone explain please.

LOL. Sorry. I don't know where you got that idea. But yea, they have 'em. They're just don't have an electric current going through them via phantom power.

I know I'd like to use the RE-20 esp. for kick drum, I am not sure what all I would end up using the 441 for. However I do want to have another "nice dynamic" to choose from. So I am not positive I want to get that...but if someone wants to talk me into it please do.

Hey, whatever floats your boat. The RE20 might even work as a primary vocal mic, so keep that in mind.

What about just between the MC012s and the SM81s - what would you guys choose?

I'd say the mc012's, just because they are an excellent choice, and they are less expensive than the 81's. I can't see an advantage to owning the 81's over the 012's that would justify the cost differential. Even if they were the same price, I might prefer the 012s.

Good luck.

 

[wes480]

well, I guess I was thinking just a very straightforward coil dynamic...(in terms of diaphragm)

 

[wes480]

chess if you had the MC012s would you want the Neumanns?

Or, the other way around, if you had the Neumanns...would you want them?

I can see the potential for having both the neumanns and the octavas (or shures)..

but, not having both Ovtava and Shure.

 

[chessrock]

chess if you had the MC012s would you want the Neumanns?

Or, the other way around, if you had the Neumanns...would you want them?

Uh . . . that would be a yes to question one . . . and a yes to question two. If I could have Neumanns, I would take them, because of the fact that . . . well . . . they're neumanns for cryin' out loud, and who wouldn't want then?

If I had neumanns, I would most definitely still have use for the Oktavas. The interchangeable capsules just make them so damn versatile. I don't think I'd want to bring the neumanns in on a close-micing drum session . . . just because I know how drummers are, and I'd be afraid of him banging it with a stick, knocking it over, or getting all cute by grabbing it and using it as a talkback mic, not knowing he could be damaging it.

If he spits on one of your oktavas, it isn't as much of a big deal.

Plus, I like the idea of the -10 db pads; that should allow you to bring them in a little closer, also, if you have to. You can also pick up the hypercardiod and omni-directional capsules. That, too, can give you some extra options you don't get with the Neumanns.

The only advantage I see to the sm81 is the bass rolloff. The more accoustic guitars you record, the more lust you develop for a bass rolloff switch. And not many SDC's can boast having them, although AKG makes some nice ones: http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/love.music?p=p.AKGC451B&z=1510884798632

With that in mind, you might want to ask Alan or Brent if they have a release date set for the Studio Projects SDC's. That would be about the only Studio Projects mic that I can actually admit I'm excited over. Brent Casey designed them, supposedly, which is a big plus. He and Marshall worked miracles with the mxl 603's, and these should even be a little nicer. Bass rollof, interchangeable capsules, the works.

One last mic manufacturer you did fail to mention though . . . Earthworks. The very finest SDC's in the world are made by these guys. If you want the best and can afford it, I would rank them ahead of even Neumann (in the world of SDC's that is). Can you handle it?

 

[Sennheiser]

I know I'd like to use the RE-20 esp. for kick drum, I am not sure what all I would end up using the 441 for.

Everything else except overheads.

 

[wes480]

well, I will look into them.

I am not neccesarily trying to get the "best" - but..I am just trying to get stuff I will be happy with.

And, at 1200 for the pair from Merc that is a pretty attaractive price.

I probably couldn't justify more than 300 dollars extra for the earthworks. have to see what they cost.

 

[Michael Jones]

...What about just between the MC012s and the SM81s - what would you guys choose?

-wes

I have pairs of both.
I think the SM81's are a better mic and here's why:
The frequency response seems better.
The response in the high end of the 81 seems to provide more detail than the 012's.
The low end response in the 81's doesn't have a tendency to get muddy if the mic(s) are positioned correctly.
The SM81 has a -10db pad and 3 position roll off switch.
When accuracy and detail are essential, the SM81 is tough to beat.

For what its worth, a pair of the KM184's will probably be MY next mic purchase, I would consider it an upgrade from the SM81's, and likewise, I would consider the SM81's an upgrade from the MC012's.

Here's a short clip of the SM81's on a grand piano:
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1656&alid=-1
the file is called sm81eqa, it was a mic positioning test that Harvey and littledog really helped me out with, but you can at least hear them in action.

I have a similar recording done using the mc012's, but I'll have to post it to nowhere radio later tonite.

Hope that helps.

 

[littledog]

If the new Sony's (KSM141, 137, 109) sound nearly as good as their initial descriptions, they may have to be added into the mix as a major player in the small condensor universe.

Can't say for sure - just seen the pictures and written descriptions so far...

 

[wes480]

thanks for that michael...piano sounds great. in fact the no eq version sounds almost as good as the one with eq.

The only reason I think the mc012s seem a little more attractive right now than the 81s is becuase of the changeable capsules.

 

[Henrik]

I recently bought an MD441 used (as well as a couple of MD421:s). I haven't been able to try it out all that much yet, but it sounds very good on vocals and works wonders on snare drum.

Funny, with the Sennheisers I got, I just finished my first recording of a rock group without using the SM57 once. Go figure.

Cheers
/Henrik

 

[Sennheiser]

And you'll never have to look back...