Jammie vs. the RIAA

[mrT]

I keep that information private to protect it too. So do the banks. If you don't want people to "steal" your music and enjoy it without your permission (i.e. without giving you $$$$$) then keep it private too.

If someone wanted my music so badly that they hacked my computer to get it I would be flattered...

 

[liv_rong]

i believe it is stealing, without a doubt.

i think that a great deal of people that download on file sharing programs really do have a love for music and they do understand what goes into it. it would be impossible for them to go out and buy everything that they liked because it would be so expensive. it doesnt make it right though.

and mrt is right, their really is nothing we can do about it, its always going to be there now. the industry is going to have to find a way to balance it out by finding other means of revenue.

and its not just downloading, it is easier than it has ever been to borrow someones album and rip it to your computer, this probably happens just as much as illegal downloads and they have already tried to stop this from happening but failed in that.

and a musician is not defined as someone who makes music and sells it for a living. it is someone who writes music, plays an instrument, and performs with an instrument. the farmer analogy was a good one, i admit, but i think that it is out of perspective a bit

 

[Lt. Bob]

All the industry has to do is go back to vinyl and that's , to a large dgree, the end of downloading.

 

[DavidK]

bitches...

JUst for that remark, I am not inviting you to my Christmas Party.

Sorry. I believe what I believe.

I admire your idealism. Your "beliefs" are: if I can steal something, it's worthless. Movies, Cable TV, music, Internet, Software, it's all the same to you. You assign it no value merely because you can steal it.

Find a way to make money doing it becuase you love it or get a real job.

YOu keep saying "real job". Outta curiousity, what is your profession??

 

[mrT]

All the industry has to do is go back to vinyl and that's , to a large dgree, the end of downloading.

You have no idea how many people have told me I was crazy for saying this. The record industry did this to itself. They got greedy because CD's = less overhead = more profit. They were too eager to fix what wasn't broken to pad their pockets and boy did it backfire...

JUst for that remark, I am not inviting you to my Christmas Party.

Then I'm gonna drink all my special eggnog by myself!

I admire your idealism. Your "beliefs" are: if I can steal something, it's worthless.

Why is the only value you assign your music monitary? More to the point the whole condensed argument I've been making is that like it or not music can now be obtained for free. You can adjust or just keep bitching. I'm gonna adjust because music is what I love and it's the only thing that really makes any sense to me as a career. If I was looking to get rich I would have gone into finance. I'm smart enough to fuck people out of money I'd rather just entertain them out of it. Call me an idealist

YOu keep saying "real job". Outta curiousity, what is your profession??

Go bust up concrete for a living or make minimum wage working at a gas station and tell me how much of a "real job" making music is.

 

[DavidK]

and mrt is right, their really is nothing we can do about it, its always going to be there now.

Jammie might disagree with you.

There have been pro musicians for a thousand years. The "record biz" is fairly new, it dates from the 1880s. The napster age is about 8-9 years. A blip in time, yet people wish to proclaim it as infallible. Face it, we have NO clue as to what next years technology brings. 20 Years ago, nobody could have imagined what an mp3 even was, let alone trading them over the interwebs.

To imply that the "New Way" is here forever is simply innaccurate, we simply have no idea. The Cable TV industry proclaimed "The Sky is falling" in the 80s because people were stealing it. Ummm, I still have cable and am still paying for it.

 

[mrT]

Note to DavidK:

Technology is a forward moving process. The internet and file sharing aren't going anywhere...

 

[Greg_L]

MrT makes some decent points even if he is a jackass about it.

But I'm neither an "artist" or "musician" and I'll give my crappy music to whoever wants it, so I'm not the best judge.

 

[mrT]

Mr T must not have read the whole thread, a lady was fined 200 grand for STEALING music.

Actaully no one... not one person has been fined or litigated for "stealing" music via download. They have only gone after those that distibute it without their permission. (i.e. without paying them)

This whole argument has nothing to do with music and morality. It's all business. Record companies got to write the anti-piracy laws and guess what... They thought they'd loose their shirts so they tried to stop it any way they could. But it isn't working and it won't work.

I want to start my own way of making music. My only option is to deal with the world as it is. So I'll do what I gotta do. Even if I have to give the music away. If you can't make money in music you just aren't thinking hard enough. I'm not worried. Are you?

 

[DavidK]

Go bust up concrete for a living or make minimum wage working at a gas station and tell me how much of a "real job" making music for a living is.

Thank God I worked my ass off and learned a skill. Yeah, the guy who didnt get an education, didnt learn a skill, and makes minimum wage standing behind a counter 8 hours a day at the gas station WOULD think that music is not a real job. I can live with that. I can come in wearing a suit, he rings up my coke, and he mumbles under his breath about a "real job". I like that. It makes me pleased that I worked hard for 20 years so I dont have to be him.

 

[muttley600]

I keep that information private to protect it too. So do the banks. If you don't want people to "steal" your music and enjoy it without your permission (i.e. without giving you $$$$$) then keep it private too.

If someone wanted my music so badly that they hacked my computer to get it I would be flattered...

The bank's and you and me lost billions to fraud lost last year and by your argument thats OK because the technology exists to allow it and the banks most likely asked for it because their agenda is to make money. You cannot keep your details safe it is impossible despite what you may believe.

According to your argument it's OK to steal that way as well so hey what the hell lets have a free for all.

I have worked in or allied to the music industry for 30 years and I know what a bunch of scum bags they can be. That dosen't excuse theft. There really are only one bunch that are worse and those are the people that think it's OK to steal something because the odds of them getting caught are slim. You wouldn't walk into a jewelers and walk out with a Rolex without paying. Why? because there is a better than average chance that you will be caught. You download music that would otherwise would cost you money because you think there is a very slim chance you will be caught. You are a thief there is no other way to describe you. To hide the fact behind arguments that the record industry stinks and they have brought it on themselves makes you even worse. These arguments do not change the fact that you are a thief. You are no modern day Robin Hood you are a cool, calculating thief. Should you get caught you deserve whatever the law is capable of throwing at you.

 

[liv_rong]

i dont understand why everyone keeps saying he said its ok to steal, i never saw him say that. in fact, i saw him say three times that he is trying to convey that it is there and there is not much we can do about it.

 

[muttley600]

i dont understand why everyone keeps saying he said its ok to steal, i never saw him say that. in fact, i saw him say three times that he is trying to convey that it is there and there is not much we can do about it.

Do try and keep up.

blah blah blah... downloading is bad
blah blah blah... downloading isn't bad



The tooth paste has left the tube... Music is now and forever will be a free product to all those who want it to be. Deal with it or go get a real job.

What I was saying is that right now and forever forward music will be up for download without much trouble for free. It doesn't matter if you like it or not.

let me repeat that:

It doesn't matter if you like it or not

I am talking about the cold hard reality of making music today. It doesn't matter if you hate those damn kids for stealing the music and you hate how it's been commercialized into crap. It is what it is.

More to the point the whole condensed argument I've been making is that like it or not music can now be obtained for free. You can adjust or just keep bitching. I'm gonna adjust

 

[mrT]

Yup... That's what I said.

No matter what you feel about the whole "illegal" download thing, it's here to stay. If you want to make a living making music you better count it into your strategy.

Sorry if some of you can't handle that.

And to DavidK: You must be a perty good fiddler 'cause I doubt your personality gets you many jobs...

 

[brendandwyer]

yeah but DavidK is a craftsman, no?

Sort of like a finish carpenter. He puts together all that decorative moulding and bannister railings in your house and then you pay him for what he created out of a pile of wood.

David creates, or as is in classical, recreates a composition in live performance and is paid for his craft.

______________________
So in pop music, a group of what, 100 people all contribute to writing, arranging, performing, producing, recording, licensing, manufacturing, and distribution of that piece of work.

Somebody in there is paying for all that. And, on top of that, the original writer of the composition gets a share of all the future sales of his/her composition.

Now it would be easy to say that because these artists and producers are already rich, they should relax and "get with it" and let consumers copy and distribute unauthorized copies of that work. But that seems really ridiculous.

I understand that the music industry is going to change, but you can rest assured, it will not change into a free for all for the consumer. The only way that would EVER happen, is if everyone in that chain decided to start working for free.

The change i see coming is that because SO many people write music and perform music, and recording that has become easier and more accessible than ever, you will find that the artist will sell direct to the public. They might still hire PR, but studios and labels are about to bite the dust.

But again, rest assured, the artist will only be cool with you stealing their art until the flattery wears off and they feel taken advantage of.

 

[muttley600]

Yup... That's what I said.

No matter what you feel about the whole "illegal" download thing, it's here to stay. If you want to make a living making music you better count it into your strategy.

Sorry if some of you can't handle that.

And to DavidK: You must be a perty good fiddler 'cause I doubt your personality gets you many jobs...

No it's not a case of "Live with it" or get "over it" or whatever as many are finding out to there cost. It goes like this, you steal, you get caught, you pay the price. There have been further arrests in the UK related to music piracy and they will continue. Theft is both illegal and morally wrong.

You will never change you mind I realise that and the only reason I can find to explain that is that you have no concept of the fact that stealing is wrong. Unless you can convince that your upbringing has instilled another moral and ethical view that is alien to the rest of the community you have to work and live within?

Cheap shots at successful musicians won't help you hide your casual lack of regard for the work and effort that goes into the product you think it is OK for everyone to steal.

 

[mrT]

I took no cheap shots (quite the opposite) and No one gets arrested/prosecuted/sued for just downloading music. Only the uploaders. Why don't they go whole hog and charge every downloader with theft. You would support that if they could right! Fuck those theives.

 

[legionserial]

Would you buy something you didn't think was worth the price?

No. I wouldn't take it either if someone else had put a value on it. If it's not worth buying at the retail price, it probably ain't worth listening to for free either.

And yes. You can have my music if you want it. You can pay if you want too. But if you don't that's cool too.

See, you, the creator, have set your price there. It just happens to be zero. Which is cool. Don't get me wrong, if someone is happy to let people take their stuff for free, and willing to put a retail price of zero, and it's worth listening to, then I will take it at that zero retail price. And if you put a price of $1 per tune. or $15 an album, or whatever. I'd pay it if I like your stuff. I wouldn't steal it. Because if your stuff is good (I've not heard any of it so please don't think I'm implying any kind of negative appraisal by saying that ), then I would want to support you, the artist.

 

[JMarcomb]

i think david hit the nail on the head when he mentioned that if you were to put the amount of energy, time, assets into a full time job in music, you will feel like you need to be compensated or else you get strangled . of course there are things the musician can do to hinder the effects, but it doesnt take away from the principle of stealing. youre really just setting yourself up in our fresh new society of easy come... either way, in the end it will come back to bit ya in some little way

 

[Dragon]

I believe anyone interested in said argument must read this article.