Jammie vs. the RIAA

[DavidK]

The record industry is in the mess they are in because of their own issues. We all know what they are, like putting out the worst crap in the history of music.

Yeah, we should be allowed to steal from them if they put out crap.

Record labels put out two types of music:

1. Stuff that sells

2. Stuff they THINK will sell

If they are putting out crap, ya gotta blame the people buying it to a large extent. I agree that there is a lotta crap out there, but if it sells? What would you expect the record label to do? Lose money and put out good music? They want to make money, they will sell tape recordings of farts or Beethoven Symphonies, it doesnt matter.

If you want to blame someone, blame the music classes in schools, blame the parents, blame the kids, blame Bush Sure, the industry puts it out, but people are buying it. Go figger.

 

[Big Daddy]

You keep feeding people shit and they don't know there is anything better. They accept it as the norm.

That's human nature.

People eat bugs, think they're great.

Until they get some good food.

People eat fast food and think nothing of it.

Some people no matter what will always like crap, some people when they learn it's crap move up.

You can't point a finger at any one entity, it's just human nature.

 

[DavidK]

You keep feeding people shit and they don't know there is anything better. They accept it as the norm.

That's human nature.

People eat bugs, think they're great.

Until they get some good food.

People eat fast food and think nothing of it.

Some people no matter what will always like crap, some people when they learn it's crap move up.

You can't point a finger at any one entity, it's just human nature.

Years ago, I went to a summer music school in the Mountains. Two "townies" ran the joint as far as maintenence stuff. During the year they ran a sewer service. They had a business card that I still have somewhere. It said:

Bills Sewer Service
Your Shit is our Bread and Butter​

There is a very fine line between someones shit music and YOUR shit music or MY shit music. One cannot legislate taste. As a classical musician, lets face it: we got some good songs. I like Led Zeppelin, but I wouldnt want to compare them to Bach or Beethoven.

To me, the best music is Opera. Obviously it's popularity in 2007 is not as big as Britney. But it's not my gig to legislate taste, nor is it a record labels. They are a business that sells things. In the 80s, the big labels like Sony would actually take profits from Rock to subsidize it's classical offerings since Classical rarely made them money. Those days went out with sheer greed of making more money. However, if the product didnt sell, I cant really blame them.
I dont care for the music I hear on the radio these days. However, it really has nothing to do with me. Parents share music with kids, mine gave me my love of classical music. If kids choose to buy crap, so be it, there is nothing I can do about it. Music is intangible, what I think is good most people might think is garbage and vice-versa. Ultimately, thats the beauty of it.

 

[rayc]

You can do something about it!
Just as your folks did. exposeure, example, variety, - the 5 music as food groups & the hierarchy that leads to better musical nutrition as opposed to taste management. Mind you the # of kids these days that like chilli & sour lollies means they can develop some buds albiet in the wrong part of the head. Maybe Hooked on Classics should be revived! (sorry)
If someone has read Tolkien, Tolstoy & Troma and still prefers tabloids they've at least experienced a range of options and made a choice, albiet a sad one, based on exposure, variety and an attempt to broaden their tastes.
Mind you to counter that argument I was exposed, by my folks, to swing & Elvis movie LPs as a kids. I left home with a musical thirst for atonalism, Beethoven's odd numbers, true heavy metal, glam, hard rock, 50/60's rock'n'roll, punk & folk (all of which might be, in some form or other atonal).
My tastes have broadened since then but, as yet, don't include Elvis movies or swing. YET I was exposed to them & searched from them for other, obviously contemporary, music to sooth the savage beast within based on the knowledge that my folks had found something of themselves in their own timezone that could accompany them in life - mind you the old man became an Eagles fan - so that probably kills my point right there.
Where was I going in all this?
Oh, can't make 'em but can offer little bits to 'em I think.
P.S. Are the Arctic Monkeys the new Elvis Costello?

 

[tkingen]

Many people want to "belong" to something or follow something that makes them feel like they're on the cutting edge. To this end, much of music marketing gears towards the fashion and perceived culture surrounding the music. The music is the wallpaper to decorate the culture.
It's a social club.

 

[MCI2424]

And I guess that since Dragon is NOT banning members who are attacking other members in here, he should maybe un-ban some of the members that he HAS banned from here.

How could it hurt? It is also the most just thing to do!

Are you are just and fair over-lord of this website Dragon? Or are you petty and spiteful, much like many of the members here?

Shine or tarnish in your response. You DO set the tone. While there are many who will sniff your excrement hole in the protection of your double standards, just remember that it is usually those same people that start the problems. You have been misled about many around here and are taking actions against some people who have done almost nothing wrong.

True. All true!

Some of the biggest a-holes are the ones who CAUSE the problems and THEN cry to Dragon for banning of one's who don't agree with them.

 

[mrT]

blah blah blah... downloading is bad
blah blah blah... downloading isn't bad



The tooth paste has left the tube... Music is now and forever will be a free product to all those who want it to be. Deal with it or go get a real job.

On a personal note: all of you are CRAZY to complain about this. I presonally see it making music much less central and much more local/regional. If Big labels can't move enough product anymore to justify their bloat and fold do you guys honestly believe that good music will go with it? The music is always going to be made. Artists made quality music before big labels and they'll make it after. This is a bad time to be someone who wants things to stay the same but an excellent time to be a fan of music... Which I'm going to guess everyone here is.

Mark my words: When big labels fall apart (and they will/are) there will be hundreds of smaller ones to take their place. And there will be a new era in recording. You can try to resist it but look around... it's already happening right now. It's funny though. All of you want to keep things the same but you'll be the ones who benefit the most when it changes (the home recordist that is).


EDIT: Originally posted in http://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=48732&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0 a much less assholish discussion of the same topic on TapeOp.

 

[DavidK]

Music is now and forever will be a free product to all those who want it to be. Deal with it or go get a real job.

Sorry my friend, but only a crappy musician would say this.

 

[mrT]

Sorry my friend, but only a crappy musician would say this.

Why does saying that make me a crappy musician?

What I was saying is that right now and forever forward music will be up for download without much trouble for free. It doesn't matter if you like it or not.

let me repeat that:

It doesn't matter if you like it or not

It is what it is. You can accept that fact and adapt to the changing world or collect dust where you stand but nothing will make the music industry move backward. And I don't think it should.

I do music because I love it. If you picked it as a career for it's financial security you're a damn fool. Quit complaing and go make some music.

 

[Lt. Bob]

A few years ago Doonesbury did a bit on this where Jimmy Thudpucker (think that was his name) did an interveiw where he talked about how, with the coming demise of the big company record system, musiciansb would go back to being wandering troubadors .... making their living thru strictly live playing.
I do think there's an element of truth to this.
The vast majority of players have always made their living by playing live. Except for notable exceptions like DavidK .... everyone I've ever known made their money playing live and even bands with recording contracts made their real money on concerts. I knew all the guys in LaRoux very well and even though they had a number 1 and some other decent selling records ...... they actually ended up owing money on the record end of the business. They made all their money on the concerts which the record was mainly for creating a demand for.
And except for the very largest sellers of albums that's still the case. Records are mainly a loss leader concert promotion.
David makes money because he was a hired gun and doesn't have to pay those studio costs and all the other costs of doing the record in the first place. And, of course, the big names he recorded for also made money. But even when you get down to the mid-tier musicians ..... their real money comes from performances and merchandise.
So it's possible this is gonna bring a shaking out of the industry where "musicians" that can only sound good in the studio will fade away from lack of cash and the guys that can bring it on live will be the last one's standing.
At my age the only CDs I'll probably ever make will be self produced and sold at my gigs so I watch all this with interest but not too much personal concern.

 

[DavidK]

Why does saying that make me a crappy musician?

.

Because you have absolutely no respect for the product or it's craftsmen. If you were an actual musician, you would have to. In one way you are correct, it doesnt mean you are a crappy musician. It means that you are not a musician, period.

You can accept that fact and adapt to the changing world

OOH, the Sky is falling.

If you picked it as a career for it's financial security you're a damn fool.

Have fun at your job today. I'll be hanging out, maybe watch some horror Movies. I am saving all my energy for the whopping 3 hours I have to work this week, yet I get a full paycheck. The horrors.


THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

 

[mrT]

I'm sorry you have to act like a 12 year old just because I choose to live in the real world.

Shit is worth exactly what people will pay for it. It's a universal law.
Aparantly admiting that means I'm not a musician. I guess I really don't care. If you want to think less of me go right ahead...

But I think you greatly overvalue the worth of your product. Which is why music is really in the state it is today.

You treat an art like a commodity long enough and sure as shit that's what it becomes...

Have fun at your job today. I'll be hanging out, maybe watch some horror Movies. I am saving all my energy for the whopping 3 hours I have to work this week, yet I get a full paycheck. The horrors.


THE SKY IS FALLING!!!

Then why are you whining like a little bitch about how you have to play shows?

Playing concerts and touring is tougher as you get older. I am 42 and wiped out because I had 3 gigs today, I feel like I played football. I play 200 nites a year. Err, I dont want to do that forever.

 

[liv_rong]

i think it is the most rediculous statement to say that he is not a musician, kinda bullshit.

i do not think that you have proven your point on why he is not a musician.

what you have stated just seems like a cocky answer to me, with no real relevance

 

[muttley600]

i think it is the most rediculous statement to say that he is not a musician, kinda bullshit.

i do not think that you have proven your point on why he is not a musician.

what you have stated just seems like a cocky answer to me, with no real relevance

No, in one very real sense he is not a musician. He makes music. If he bakes bread in his kitchen we wouldn't assume he is a baker. If he grows some vegetables in his yard is he a farmer? The argument that because music is available free to download regardless of intellectual property or copy rite does not mean it is right to do so. The farmer leaves his crops sitting in the field, can we just go help ourselves because they are freely available or do we become a thief if we do?

 

[DavidK]

what you have stated just seems like a cocky answer to me, with no real relevance

Fair enough, I was being a prick. However, it has more relevance than you can imagine. When people ( aka "kids") decide what is worth paying for and what is stealable, we not only have problems but we have threads like this. Mr T must not have read the whole thread, a lady was fined 200 grand for STEALING music.

Its obvious that a lot of people have zero respect for the product. To me, that's because they have no concept of what it takes to make said product. Believe me, if MrT comes up with something sellable, he will change his tune lickety-split.

 

[Ford Van]

Fair enough, I was being a prick. However, it has more relevance than you can imagine. When people ( aka "kids") decide what is worth paying for and what is stealable, we not only have problems but we have threads like this. Mr T must not have read the whole thread, a lady was fined 200 grand for STEALING music.

Its obvious that a lot of people have zero respect for the product. To me, that's because they have no concept of what it takes to make said product. Believe me, if MrT comes up with something sellable, he will change his tune lickety-split.

A-fucking-men brotha man!!!

 

[legionserial]

Shit is worth exactly what people will pay for it. It's a universal law.

Sorry dude, I like you, but that is one of the dumbest fucking things I have ever heard.

Some people don't have any money, so they steal. They aren't defining what is worth paying for it. They don't have any money... Their only options are to steal or go without.

Slealing is not an exercise in appraising something at a value of zero and (non)buying it for the the (non)value you appraised it at. Stealing is an excercise in not being able to afford something yet assuming you are still entitled to it, and taking it regardless of it's value.

Assuming you have a god given entitlement to something that you did not earn or work for is often defined as arrogance. I personally prefer to define it as retardation.

Are you saying that you don't mind people just taking your creations? This combined with the quote above insinuate that you yourself think your creations are worthless. That's up to you, but I'm sure most of us are proud of our creations and certainly do not find them to be worthless.

 

[mrT]

You can all cry in your beers some more because the music world isn't changing back. Bitch all you want (and for some of you that is a lot) but I'm not talking about my opinion or how I get music. I am talking about the cold hard reality of making music today. It doesn't matter if you hate those damn kids for stealing the music and you hate how it's been commercialized into crap. It is what it is. Find a way to make money doing it becuase you love it or get a real job.

All I ever hear from the anti-technology crowd is bitching. Never once have I heard a rational solution.

Attack me personally all you want. Blowing you're hot air isn't giong to stop a hurricane...

Mr T must not have read the whole thread, a lady was fined 200 grand for STEALING music.

I am aware of that... I actually can read! It's spelling I was never the best at.

Believe me, if MrT comes up with something sellable, he will change his tune lickety-split.

Sorry. I believe what I believe. Not just what is best for my financial situation. You should have been a politician.

Are you saying that you don't mind people just taking your creations? This combined with the quote above insinuate that you yourself think your creations are worthless. That's up to you, but I'm sure most of us are proud of our creations and certainly do not find them to be worthless.

Monitarily worthless at least. Things are litterally worth exactly what someone will pay for them. It's supply and demand. I did not make this up. Would you buy something you didn't think was worth the price?

And yes. You can have my music if you want it. You can pay if you want too. But if you don't that's cool too.

 

[mrT]

bitches...

 

[muttley600]

So MrT, The technology exists to allow someone to hack into your computer/bank's computer/work place computer and use your credit card details, identity and personal details in whatever manner they deem to be appropriate. Is that OK as well? I mean I'm not talking about my opinion here, I'm talking about the cold hard reality of banking today. It doesn't matter if you hate those damn hackers for stealing your credit card details or identity. It is what it is.