It's a damn Spectacle!

Music changes. Music comes and then it goes usually because something comes along that people prefer. In the UK punk lasted little more than 18 months max. Then it was all new wave and mods stuff for a short time.
Man, there's a lot of great post 70's punk rock from the UK. I wonder if you were into punk in the 70's then your musical tastes changed and that scene sort of died in your head so it doesn't exist today. To you.
 

Orson

Well-known member
Man, there's a lot of great post 70's punk rock from the UK. I wonder if you were into punk in the 70's then your musical tastes changed and that scene sort of died in your head so it doesn't exist today. To you.
No music is around all the time. But is it popular? Is it relevant? There are people who still play brass band music and some who like it, but you wouldnt say this is 'their era'.
 
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No music is around all the time. But is it popular? Is it relevent? The are people who still play brass band music and some who like it but you wouldnt say this is 'their era'.
There are some fucking great punk rock bands right now. Yes. And the scene is still absolutely thriving. I won't bother you with examples but my brother is in Face to Face. The singer of that band just moved to Nashville to develop as that kind of artist but still does the F2F shows to pay the bills. And he's not the only one. That sounds fucking ridiculous to say but it's true. My first real post Covid show was them and Pennywise in AZ and it was bonkers.
 

Mick Doobie

Resist We Much
Sure. Great songwriting is subjective, obviously. So my version of what I would consider a great pop song is probably going to differ from your opinion of what great pop songwriting is going to be. But since you love to argue with me I'll tell you what I would consider the building blocks of a great pop song is then you can tell me I'm wrong.

First of all, the song structure alone is critical to having a well written song FOR THE MOST PART. There are no hard rules but a great pop song is probably going to have a good intro, a couple or few good verses, maybe a pre-chorus, a catchy chorus and possibly even a bridge in there somewhere. There should be a hook that catches a listeners ear. It can be musical or it can be with the lyrics but it has to be a good hook. A great melody is imperative. When I think of great songwriting and great pop song structures in general, I don't need to look any further than most of what Motown Records put out from 1960 to 1969. They had teams of world class writers pumping out hit after hit after hit. "During the 1960s, Motown achieved 79 records in the top-ten of the Billboard Hot 100 between 1960 and 1969."- from wiki.

Those songs are still being listened to and sampled 50 years later, and encapsulates great pop songwriting. I'll probably be humming a Temptations song for the next two weeks. That's another great sign of quality songwriting.

Now, please educate me as to how I know nothing about music. Thanks.

lol @

Why are you getting all excited and defensive? I just asked a simple question about what could possibly be an interesting discussion. That's what you have to offer?...getting your ass all up on shoulders and in doing so failing to address the question. I specifically asked if you could expound on your assertion that Elvis Costello's songwriting is about as good as pop gets. Motown? Elvis Costello may or may not be punk, I wouldn't know. But he damn sure isn't Motown. ymmv

Seems to me it was you who came into the thread and intimated someone else knew nothing about music if they didn't appreciate Costello's music as much as you.

nevermind
 
lol @

Why are you getting all excited and defensive? I just asked a simple question about what could possibly be an interesting discussion. That's what you have to offer?...getting your ass all up on shoulders and in doing so failing to address the question. I specifically asked if you could expound on your assertion that Elvis Costello's songwriting is about as good as pop gets. Motown? Elvis Costello may or may not be punk, I wouldn't know. But he damn sure isn't Motown. ymmv

Seems to me it was you who came into the thread and intimated someone else knew nothing about music if they didn't appreciate Costello's music as much as you.

nevermind
Like I said, and I tried to be as specific as possible.

Great songwriting is subjective, obviously. So my version of what I would consider a great pop song is probably going to differ from your opinion of what great pop songwriting is going to be. But since you love to argue with me I'll tell you what I would consider the building blocks of a great pop song is then you can tell me I'm wrong.

First of all, the song structure alone is critical to having a well written song FOR THE MOST PART. There are no hard rules but a great pop song is probably going to have a good intro, a couple or few good verses, maybe a pre-chorus, a catchy chorus and possibly even a bridge in there somewhere. There should be a hook that catches a listeners ear. It can be musical or it can be with the lyrics but it has to be a good hook. A great melody is imperative. When I think of great songwriting and great pop song structures in general, I don't need to look any further than most of what Motown Records put out from 1960 to 1969. They had teams of world class writers pumping out hit after hit after hit. "During the 1960s, Motown achieved 79 records in the top-ten of the Billboard Hot 100 between 1960 and 1969."- from wiki.

Those songs are still being listened to and sampled 50 years later, and encapsulates great pop songwriting. I'll probably be humming a Temptations song for the next two weeks. That's another great sign of quality songwriting.
 
So, again, and this should be obvious but I'll spell it out. Both of the Elvis songs I posted have, IMO, all the qualities I listed. And we're still talking about those songs 44 years later. And someone 44 years from now will probably still be talking about them.
 
Seems to me it was you who came into the thread and intimated someone else knew nothing about music if they didn't appreciate Costello's music as much as you.
I BARELY like EC and never listen to him. I barely like Madonna and never listen to her either but I can recognize great songwriting when I hear it.
 

TAE

All you have is now
IMO opinion Geldorf is pretty far from punk....Iggy Pop, Black Flag, X, The Jerks, Fear, The Sex Pistols, The weirdos, The Jag offs ( just made that one up but that is of the general direction of punk names) etc were what I as a LA local considered punk...Elvis Costello was part of what we called New Wave...definitely not punk.
 

Mick Doobie

Resist We Much
I take that back. I could almost see someone at Motown (re)doing Alison.

Disclaimers are fine, but I don't think anyone was out to attack or argue with you over your opinion. I have an interest in songwriting, and try to be a good songwriter, with varying degrees of success. Maybe there is something I am missing in those EC songs. Something from which I could learn.

Alison is not a bad song. The hook has a nice melody, and can appeal to the pop audience of adolescent female vulnerability and overly dramatic tendencies...."Alison....the world is killing you". Guys are less literal, it could appeal to the male listener as Alison can just as easily be substituted for the actual subject of desire, Angela, or whoever. The "aim is true" i guess is a reference to the fore mentioned "sticky" valentines, cupid's arrow. Other than the somewhat common theme of a longtime crush, from adolescence to her marriage, the remainder of the lyrics seem to be attempts at being clever that don't quite hit the mark. But it's obviously not a bad as far as pop songs go. Particularly the chorus, I would be pleased with it if I had wrote it. But certainly wouldn't be so pleased as to consider it among the best that pop songwriting has to offer....or hopefully I have to offer.

See, no attack or attempt to argue or prove you wrong.
 
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I take that back. I could almost see someone at Motown (re)doing Alison.

Disclaimers are fine, but I don't think anyone was out to attack or argue with you over your opinion. I have an interest in songwriting, and try to be a good songwriter, with varying degrees of success. Maybe there is something I am missing in those EC songs. Something from which I could learn.

Alison is not a bad song. The hook has a nice melody, and can appeal to the pop audience of adolescent female vulnerability and overly dramatic tendencies...."Alison....the world is killing you". Guys are less literal, it could appeal to the male listener as Alison can just as easily be substituted for the actual subject of desire, Angela, or whoever. The "aim is true" i guess is a reference to the fore mentioned "sticky" valentines, cupid's arrow. Other than the somewhat common theme of a longtime crush, from adolescence to her marriage, the remainder of the lyrics seem to be attempts at being clever that don't quite hit the mark. But it's obviously not a bad as far as pop songs go. Particularly the chorus, I would be pleased with it if I had wrote it. But certainly wouldn't be so pleased as to consider it among the best that pop songwriting has to offer....or hopefully I have to offer.
Well, like Orson or whoever said, I came in late and I'm not going backwards. Just because I think a particular song or artist is shite or the greatest musical entity ever shouldn't change the ability to recognize well written songs. TAE can attest to this being from this area. He'll be singing go see Cal, go see Cal go see Cal for the next two weeks. lol.

See, no attack or attempt to argue or prove you wrong.

Copy that. I was trying to cut it off at the pass. My apologies.
 

60's guy

Active member
And as good as pop songwriting as it comes.

I know that you know that Elvis Costello did not write that song. Nick Lowe composed the song in 1974 and included it on one his albums, but overall, the song fell on deaf ears until Costello covered the song.
Is it a pop song? I'm not sure that the song falls into the category of pop music because people danced to so called pop music and disco. People danced. Never listening to lyrics.
It's a awesome song!
The best cover version I ever heard of the song was recorded by Robben Ford on his "Keep On Running" CD in 2003.
And there is also
 

Orson

Well-known member
I always thought punk was supposed to be a movement by angry young people against authority and the norm. The music was mostly bad because few could play let alone write anything descent.
 

TAE

All you have is now
Had no idea Nick wrote this....EC definitely did a more middle road POP version of it and explains why it got a much more successful "second life" Like Hendrix's Hey Joe and All along the watchtower..

 

60's guy

Active member
I always thought punk was supposed to be a movement by angry young people against authority and the norm. The music was mostly bad because few could play let alone write anything descent.
It was a movement by angry young people (wanna be) musicians. Punk music morphed into Rap and Hip Hop. The newest generation of angry young people. To be fair, though, it sells.
 

spantini

COO of me, inc.
Had no idea Nick wrote this....EC definitely did a more middle road POP version of it and explains why it got a much more successful "second life" Like Hendrix's Hey Joe and All along the watchtower..
Hendrix's All Along The Watchtower is definitely my favorite version.. and for Hey Joe, I'll take Deep Purple's from their Shades Of Deep Purple LP..

You'll get a kick outta this one, @TAE

 
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Snowman999

Active member
Hey Mick all good...was not the intent of this thread but I totally dig where it it's went. Thanks for turning us on to the Memory lane tune...kick ass...And on Chris Stapleton...I have to admit I hardly listen to radio at all these days and when I do it's not country generally. Consequently I don't know much about Chris but these works you posted of him have me becoming a fan... Being in this country band is pretty different but we're starting to gel and making some pretty good noise being as I and the drummer are totally rock rollers. Have 3 gigs coming up in September ..

Snowman....Your mention of how These times have changed and the millennials can't relate to a phone number on a matchbook or even an Operator...how crazy is that? But your comment jogged my memory of this one which totally references the operator... I LOVE THIS TUNE and Shell Silverstein's houseboat...
THAT WAS A BLAST FROM THE PAST.

I recognize band names immediately. Dr Feelgood had their time. The title seemed familiar. But, it wasn't what I was thinking. First line brought me back. GREAT SONG. This is the first time I'm hearing it in probably 30 + years. THANKS. I love hearing songs that are long forgotten. I had a wonderful 45 collection. My mom sold them all except for a few. She probably got pennies.
 
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