If there is an afterlife

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gcapel said:
I think if you have asked Jesus to come into your life, he will not give up on you.
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Well I sort of have. It was more like "Jesus, if you exist, which I quite seriously doubt, it would be cool if you could convince me of it, cuz I'd hate to miss out on all the fun." Wait.....wait.....wait....nothing.

Oh well, like I said, I'm quite content with my current beliefs. I just have always been completely baffled by the concept of "beleive in Jesus and you will be saved." It's not that easy, especially if you have a whole mountain of scientific and just plain old logical evidence to the contrary.

That said, I appreciate, and respect those of you who do believe, and have no doubts. Seriously.
 
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What is logical, reasonable or even comprehensible about death, especially your own? This life is a blessing and I’m enjoying it to the fullest, but it ain’t gonna last. I plan to live a long time. In fact I already know I will live well past 100… it’s in my genes, and sometimes you just know things deep inside about your future. I’m not even middle age yet. I will outlive many people reading this now, some are much younger and seemingly further from The End. One day I’ll be an old man, but you’ll be dead.

But about Christianity in general, there are so many different denominations and traditions you can’t even treat it in general. TV evangelists have arrived late in a game that has been playing out for 2000 years. You can look to plenty of bad Christians to justify rejecting Christ and God in general, but they’re not faithfully representing Christ. In fact the people that get the most press in our media are failing Christ or using God and Believers for personal gain... that's what makes the story interesting and worth air time to sponsors.

No one can prove or disprove God, but there is evidence that should make most want to look into it. That is, considering everyone knows we won’t be staying on earth. So what’s next? Ok, you can believe your fate is no different than the roadkill you passed on the way.

What if we aren’t just higher animals? I don’t think we are. We are spiritual beings and God is spirit, so everyone will find God by the spirit, beyond reason and debate. Some people wait until they’re on their deathbed before it becomes clear and they’re shaken out of denial. That’s fine, just don’t wait too long.

See, I’m late for everything, even church… which is why I’m also going to live into my one hundred and teens… I just don’t get around to things, even dying. ;)

Here's hoping you (the reader, whoever) have a deathbed and not just a sudden departure if you haven't pondered these things beforehand.
 

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apl said:
Do you want to be? I am convinced; therefore I believe. I wouldn't believe what I do if I wasn't convinced.
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Is it ethical for adults to teach personal beliefs as facts to children?

(not saying you are, just using your quote)
 
swatsds said:
Is it ethical for adults to teach personal beliefs as facts to children?

(not saying you are, just using your quote)
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Not sure where that came from, but is it ethical too let children raise themselves? Every culture teaches children deliberately and/or passively by example. The one’s that don’t are dysfunctional… they have broken down as a society.
 
apl said:
It won't happen to those who refuse to be convinced.



Do you want to be? I am convinced; therefore I believe. I wouldn't believe what I do if I wasn't convinced.
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I actually believe there is some truth in this. That it is one of those paradoxes where God doesn't exist until you KNOW he exists. Which I know makes no logical sense and sounds like brainwashing. But, Doubting is contrary to what God is so it's impossible for two to exist together. Thats why it's a paradox.
 
a pastor of evangelical type once told me that belief was a miracle. that for anyone to believe was to have faith and that was a miracle. i don't know if i buy that or not, but it's something to think about.
 
swatsds said:
Is it ethical for adults to teach personal beliefs as facts to children?
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Kids don't understand that they shouldn't touch stoves because they might be hot or that they shouldn't run out into the street because they might get splatted.

It would be unethical for a parent not to teach their children what they know about the ultimate reality.
 
apl said:
Kids don't understand that they shouldn't touch stoves because they might be hot or that they shouldn't run out into the street because they might get splatted.

It would be unethical for a parent not to teach their children what they know about the ultimate reality.
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If it is to be taught, it should be taught as a personal belief, not an objective fact.
 
Is this the parent trap thread? :confused:

I came in here looking to find out if there's going to be any good snooker tournaments on the other side of mortality and now believe I will find some. :D

Cheers! :)
 
apl said:
If the parent can't hold the belief as objective, they shouldn't be holding it as a personal belief.
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Well, the obvious retort is what proof is there of Christianity being literal and true?

I'm surprised to hear you suggest it as an objective fact.
 
swatsds said:
Well, the obvious retort is what proof is there of Christianity being literal and true?

I'm surprised to hear you suggest it as an objective fact.
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What proof was there that the earth was round until someone sailed around it to prove it wasn't flat?

So many things that we now know as facts were pure fantasy until proven otherwise.

The fact that when people die and then come back to life and all report the sensation of traveling upward, bathed in light and feeling complete peace is a well documented fact.

The fact that millions of people has experienced hauntings of spirits means our human essence and souls can and do travel beyond our mortal bodies.

There are far more facts pointing in the direction of the supernatural being true then of it all being some horribly stupid misunderstanding.

Yes, belief is key to all religious doctrines but belief is also key to every other aspect of our lives...if you want to in fact have one?

Cheers! :)
 
swatsds said:
Well, the obvious retort is what proof is there of Christianity being literal and true?
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Much more than it appears you are aware of. But that's ok; you won't accidentally discover it in our culture. You have to seek it out, like anything worthwhile.

That phrase... "Objective Fact"... I don't think it means what you think it means. So-called "Objective facts" are perceived through the senses, but meaning is interpreted by each individual. Equally qualified Scholars may spend a lifetime debating what a bit of data reveals, and when they die their students will continue the debate.

Often what we have when discussing spiritual matters are people on one side that are relying solely on the five physical senses, and on the other side people that have knowledge imparted to them supernaturally. All are objective to the people experiencing it. God is real to those that have been spiritually awakened. All humans have the capacity to encounter God on a spiritual level, but all men have free will, so may chose to limit themselves to their earthly senses and completely deny their spiritual essence.

:)
 
Fair enough. My only point is it can damage children to be raised believing there is certain to be an afterlife based on ideas that are not based in fact, when they get older and feel misled by their own parents.
 
swatsds said:
Fair enough. My only point is it can damage children to be raised believing there is certain to be an afterlife based on ideas that are not based in fact, when they get older and feel misled by their own parents.
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Yep, I'm sure there are millions of kids who got pretty fucked up by that mess. I know a few adults that will actually admit it.
 
swatsds said:
Fair enough. My only point is it can damage children to be raised believing there is certain to be an afterlife based on ideas that are not based in fact, when they get older and feel misled by their own parents.
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If that didn't happen regularly with each new generation, there would be no religion today. Sure there are a small percentage of "born again" types, and even less "born for the first time later in life" types, but I'd suspect the vast majority of God's children came to accept the teachings of their church as fact because of exposure at a very early age.

Faithful Christians DO beleive what they beleive about afterlife to based in fact - it says it right in the holy bible, so it can't be doubted.

I was raised as a Catholic. I still go to church occasionally. However, at some point between ages 14 and 20 I started doubting all of it, and my blind faith was gradually replaced with curious skepticm. I never got pissed at my parents, about it though. I was clearly brought up that way for a good reason. And that's cool. Heck I have a few "god books" at home that I read to my daughter. When she is older I will absolutely explain to her that there are many religions in this world, and all or some or none of them may be valid. I will explain why our family gravitates towards Christianity - what I like about it, and what I don't like about it. I will teach her why her Jewish friend doesn't get gifts on Christmas, and why the lady at the grocery store is wearing a burkha. I will teach her that Jesus was a very good man, and we can learn a lot from him, and that many people beleive he is the son of God. And that many people do not. And so forth. For me, it's the only honest way I can deal with this whole topic.
 
The Ghost of FM said:
What proof was there that the earth was round until someone sailed around it to prove it wasn't flat?

So many things that we now know as facts were pure fantasy until proven otherwise.

The fact that when people die and then come back to life and all report the sensation of traveling upward, bathed in light and feeling complete peace is a well documented fact.

The fact that millions of people has experienced hauntings of spirits means our human essence and souls can and do travel beyond our mortal bodies.

There are far more facts pointing in the direction of the supernatural being true then of it all being some horribly stupid misunderstanding.

Yes, belief is key to all religious doctrines but belief is also key to every other aspect of our lives...if you want to in fact have one?

Cheers! :)
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Or are all those "occurances" just bumps in the night that we, nowadays, interpret as supernatural experiences simply because we have been taught by media to be afraid of them?

And before we had scary movies we had... the Bible! To tell us that we live beyond the grave - so are the things we see actually things from the great beyond that have come back, or are they created by our minds because we have almost always been conditioned to think that way?

I tend to drift in and out of sleep a lot right as I am dozing, and last night I woke soon after turning the lights off and falling asleep, thinking I saw water pouring down the wall opposite my bed. First thing I thought - "Oh shit, my Blues DeVille is against that wall!" :D Point is, I have had leaky ceiling issues in that room, so my half-sleeping mind concocted this image from past experience and concern. I jumped out of bed, turned on the lights, and there was nothing on the wall - no drip, no nothing. Even felt both sides to make sure.

Perhaps the same goes for these occurances people have - they read about others' 'experiences', they read about the world beyond this one, and maybe they have lost someone they wish they could see once again, and BAM! That person made an apppeeeeaaaarance.

But I'm not skeptical about the whole thing.
 
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