Solved How you record acoustic

[danny.guitar]

Looking for some advice from the pros, or anyone really. What are the usual steps you take when someone comes in to your studio, sits down and wants to record some plain acoustic guitar tracks?

Or if you record yourself, what are some of the steps you take?

Specifically finding the right mic position for the guitar/song/playing style, knowing about where to put the mic based on how the guitar sounds, finding the 'sweet spot', knowing when you found the 'sweet spot', knowing which mic to reach for first, and stuff like that.

Or if you want a good balanced stereo recording (one that comes almost evenly out of each speaker when panned L/R).

 

[Harvey Gerst]

That's pretty well covered in the first thread in the microphone forum.

 

[chessrock]

Every situation is different ... but if you just want a very general "recording accoustic for dummies" kind of approach, this link is pretty decent ...

http://www.humbuckermusic.com/acguitrectec.html

.

 

[89gtsleeper]

Right now, my mic selection is VERY limited... but I am pretty happy with the sounds I'm getting. I have a pair of SM57s and an AKG Perception 200. I use the perception in front of the bridge about 8 inches away from the guitar. Then I use a 57 positioned directly in front of my 7th fret... about 6 inches from the neck, and have it pointed directly at my 12th fret. I leave both panned the same if one goes right 30, the other goes right 30.

 

[danny.guitar]

Thanks for the link, Chessrock.

I've tried a lot of those stereo miking techniques but without much success. For example, the signal from one mic would obviously be louder than the other one (in a spaced pair config) since one is closer to the soundhole and I could never get a good, balanced stereo image. If I tried turning up the other track in volume I got a lot of phase problems.

Then I tried the X/Y config and for some reason I got phase problems there. I don't know why. I'm sure I did it right.

The over-the-shoulder technique works but can sound real shitty in an untreated area.

Is there any way to get a good, wide stereo image without a lot of phase problems? I figured the spaced pair would yield the best stereo image but it's always more to one speaker.

 

[avieth]

I've only tried micing an acoustic once but here's how I did it:

Stand a cardioid condenser mic at the height of the low E string on the neck infront of the soundhole (about 6" away). Aim the mic slightly downward so it's pointing at the high e string and angled away from the soundhole towards the 12th fret.

It sounded pretty good for me.

 

[punkin]

I'm loving omni's right now. You can get a lot closer to the guitar without the proximity boom and I also seem to get better signal to noise if you're in a noisey-ish environment. It kind of contradicts the idea of the directional mic but it's worked for me.

One at the 12th fret about 6 inches in front, the other at about the same distance and slightly above the bridge is working out quite nicely for me.

 

[chessrock]

Is there any way to get a good, wide stereo image without a lot of phase problems? I figured the spaced pair would yield the best stereo image but it's always more to one speaker.

It sounds like you might need to get better acclimated with your audio editor.

You know you can line the tracks up visually, right? (or just keep nudging either track forward / back until you hear them snap in to phase).

You should also be able to "flip" the polarity on either track, which should pretty much take care of it if all else fails. My guess is that if you're getting phase problems with the diaphragms all but touching one another in XY, then chances are the polarity is off in one of your mics or channels (often happens with bad cables, too) -- it happens, and it's nothing to worry about. You just need to look at the tracks in your audio editor, see what's going on, and correct it from there.

.

 

[danny.guitar]

It sounds like you might need to get better acclimated with your audio editor.

You know you can line the tracks up visually, right? (or just keep nudging either track forward / back until you hear them snap in to phase).

Pretty familiar with my audio editor but not really sure my ears are that good. I did try nudging one of the tracks forward and line them up visually but I guess it would have been a good idea to listen to it as I did that.

You should also be able to "flip" the polarity on either track, which should pretty much take care of it if all else fails.

Yeah, I tried that last. It fixed the phase problem but there was 0 stereo imaging. Sounded exactly the same as it did when I flipped to mono.

My guess is that if you're getting phase problems with the diaphragms all but touching one another in XY, then chances are the polarity is off in one of your mics or channels (often happens with bad cables, too) -- it happens, and it's nothing to worry about. You just need to look at the tracks in your audio editor, see what's going on, and correct it from there.

.

I have bad luck with mic cables. I've had 2 crap out on me, the other one just last night. So I wouldn't put that off as a possibility.

Also, after looking at that link you sent me again, I did a different X/Y config. One I read on another site. The tips of the mics were still the same distance from the source but I had crossed the mics, one over the other. Not sure if this makes a difference except that one mic is a little 'higher' than the other one.

But the phase problems were severe. No low end at all, just hollow, twangy, sounding shit.

 

[TimN]

I've had pretty good luck with a single condenser 12 inches or so in front
of the sound hole, but back just a bit towards the bridge. (A Behringer
B-1.) What you must absolutely do is put up the trick sound-deadening
baffles--in this case, a wool army blanket draped over a laundry rack. The mic sits on its stand with the blanket about four inches or even less behind
it. (I always sit when recording guitars.)
The other guitar player in our group always and only plays a 12-string. He gets the two-mic treatment, with the B-1 12-15 inches from the sound hole,
and even closer to the bridge. The other condenser, which is battery
operated (not a true condenser, I suppose) is placed three-quarters of the way down from the nut, 12 inches or so off, angled slightly toward the sound hole. The mics are recorded onto separate tracks, and aren't doctored or
EQed in any way until I start mixing. These two mics together work well;
I don't even know the brand name of the battery operated mic.
The main thing is the deadening in the 1st case, and the two mic set-up for the twelve. The other player is heavy-handed, and that twelve really
puts out the sound, so the mics are backed off a bit more. Experiment . . . .

 

[danny.guitar]

I've had pretty good luck with a single condenser 12 inches or so in front
of the sound hole, but back just a bit towards the bridge. (A Behringer
B-1.) What you must absolutely do is put up the trick sound-deadening
baffles--in this case, a wool army blanket draped over a laundry rack. The mic sits on its stand with the blanket about four inches or even less behind
it. (I always sit when recording guitars.)
The other guitar player in our group always and only plays a 12-string. He gets the two-mic treatment, with the B-1 12-15 inches from the sound hole,
and even closer to the bridge. The other condenser, which is battery
operated (not a true condenser, I suppose) is placed three-quarters of the way down from the nut, 12 inches or so off, angled slightly toward the sound hole. The mics are recorded onto separate tracks, and aren't doctored or
EQed in any way until I start mixing. These two mics together work well;
I don't even know the brand name of the battery operated mic.
The main thing is the deadening in the 1st case, and the two mic set-up for the twelve. The other player is heavy-handed, and that twelve really
puts out the sound, so the mics are backed off a bit more. Experiment . . . .

Yeah I guess the main problem for me is room treatment. Miking a foot back sounds pretty bad without any kind of deadening so I'm always forced to close-mic.

 

[chessrock]

And that's really the biggest problem with bad accoustics.

It limits you to just a few mic'ing options, neither of which tend to be very desirable in most cases.

Right now, you just need to work with your audio editor. You can do one of two things: You can visually line up the two tracks, so that the peaks and troughs of the waves are corresponding almost perfectly. That right there will fix your phase problems. And it's something that you should familiarize yourself with (It's very standard stuff -- even for the greenest of recording novices).

Your other option would be to nudge one of the tracks about 20-30 ms ahead of the other. Just enough to separate the two tracks but not enough so that one is perceived as an "echo" of the other. This should also serve to give you a noticeably wider stereo image.

.

 

[tarnationsauce2]

Pretty familiar with my audio editor but not really sure my ears are that good. I did try nudging one of the tracks forward and line them up visually but I guess it would have been a good idea to listen to it as I did that.



Yeah, I tried that last. It fixed the phase problem but there was 0 stereo imaging. Sounded exactly the same as it did when I flipped to mono.



I have bad luck with mic cables. I've had 2 crap out on me, the other one just last night. So I wouldn't put that off as a possibility.

Also, after looking at that link you sent me again, I did a different X/Y config. One I read on another site. The tips of the mics were still the same distance from the source but I had crossed the mics, one over the other. Not sure if this makes a difference except that one mic is a little 'higher' than the other one.

But the phase problems were severe. No low end at all, just hollow, twangy, sounding shit.

The picture you show is not XY micing. It is near-coincident micing. With that so close to the sound source, I imagine you would get some comb filtering as you describe.

Keep in mind the the capsules are what you want to be in the XY configuration. You want them to practically be in the same place, which of course is not possible.
You should stagger the mics, with the center line of the mic capsules crossing.
Check out the attached pic.

 

[giraffe]

me lovie m/s on acu

 

[mrface2112]

it really depends on what i'm going for. sometimes i need a "big" (wide) acoustic sound (usually when the acoustic is the main instrument in the mix).....and sometimes i need a "sense" of an acoustic guitar (think a strumming acoustic in an electric rock mix where you mostly hear the pick and some jangle).

for the solo acoustic thing, i tend to do the spaced pair thing. one mic about 6in back from the 12/14th frets (where the neck meets body) and then the other mic over the shoulder aiming down and back towards the lower bout of the guitar. i pan these mics hard left and right.

then i typically put another mic (usually my dragonfly) about 4-6ft back from the guitar to glue the close mics together.

for the "acoustic in a busy mix" thing, i use one mic (usually an LDC), placed where it picks up what i'm looking for.

this has always worked for me.

how do you find the sweet spot? you walk around the player, with mic in hand, headphones on your head, listening to where it sounds best. when you find it, you stop and put the mic RIGHT THERE. there's not really much of a trick to it, really, other than knowing what sounds good.


cheers,
wade