How to record nylon acoustic?

[dens]

I have been trying different mic placement in different rooms such as my walking closet, bathroom, bedroom but man does it really need a special trick or room for this? Im using the Studio Project C1 condenser with the phantom power from my Firewire Solo. Some ppl here suggest that I might need another dedicated preamp to boost the signal. But before that I believe I need to look for the sound, that wet and thick sounding like clapton's unplugged cd (yes he used the nylons).

I love the nylons sound. Am i asking too much for my low budget equipments?

Oh and Im using my cheapo yamaha guitar. Any inputs will be apreciated.

-Denny

 

[tdukex]

That recording chain should work fine. I have made very good acou guit recordings with a Behringer mixer amd an $80 mic. Also, if the guitar sounds good, it will normally record well (note, I said normally), although nylon strings are notorious for being difficult to record. I would try the mic about 18" straight out from the neck joint. If you want the wetness, you'll have to add the verb later. I do not think bathrooms and walk-in closets are good places to record acou guit.

 

[scrubs]

I have been trying different mic placement in different rooms such as my walking closet, bathroom, bedroom but man does it really need a special trick or room for this? Im using the Studio Project C1 condenser with the phantom power from my Firewire Solo. Some ppl here suggest that I might need another dedicated preamp to boost the signal. But before that I believe I need to look for the sound, that wet and thick sounding like clapton's unplugged cd (yes he used the nylons).

I love the nylons sound. Am i asking too much for my low budget equipments?

Oh and Im using my cheapo yamaha guitar. Any inputs will be apreciated.

-Denny

Well, trying to reproduce the sound of a multi-thousand dollar nylon string with a "cheapo yamaha" is a bit of a stretch. Not that you can't make a good recording. You most likely just won't get that exact sound. Small, boxy rooms with hard walls are bad for guitar recording. Too many reflections from the walls make it sound terrible. Record in the biggest room you can and, if needed, throw some heavy blankets up on a couple of walls. Like tdudex said, start with the mic at about the neck/body joint and mess around with placement until you've got it. Move the mic back to capture more sound (& room), closer for more string sound. Unless you have an omni pattern mic, don't point it anywhere near the soundhole or it will be boomy. I've used the Behringer ECM8000 reference mic for classical and like the way it sounds. Try to get the sound with what you have first, though, before dropping money on more gear.

 

[Rokket]

I think Clapton had a piazzo pickup in that multi-thousand dollar guitar too. I don't remember seeing a mic in front of him other than to his mouth. It's been awhile, though since I've seen that unplugged... I could be wrong.

 

[dens]

Thanks for all the advice, you guys rock.

 

[Rokket]

Let us know how it turns out...

 

[apl]

I think Clapton had a piazzo pickup in that multi-thousand dollar guitar too. I don't remember seeing a mic in front of him other than to his mouth. It's been awhile, though since I've seen that unplugged... I could be wrong.

There may have been a mic inside the guitar like the Fishman blend system.

 

[Rokket]

There may have been a mic inside the guitar like the Fishman blend system.

Ahhh. Yeah, that would make sense.

 

[Rokket]

There may have been a mic inside the guitar like the Fishman blend system.

Speaking of that, look at this:

http://www.mymusicstuff.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=531


Just in case someone wanted one....

 

[apl]

Speaking of that, look at this:

http://www.mymusicstuff.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=531


Just in case someone wanted one....

Hey, that's cool! I wonder how it'd do for recording semi-direct. I don't like piezo boinginess anyway. The acoustic in "nice b n young" is direct using the fishman soundhole humbucking rare earth blah blah blah pup.

 

[Rokket]

Hey, that's cool! I wonder how it'd do for recording semi-direct. I don't like piezo boinginess anyway. The acoustic in "nice b n young" is direct using the fishman soundhole humbucking rare earth blah blah blah pup.

It's made for blending, so I imagine it would sound pretty good. Might be an option for recording that nylon acoustic and capturing a nice tone...

 

[XLR]

IME Nylon string gtr is tough to record in a small room, especially if the room's getting a lot of high frequency reflections.

For positioning a single mic, I've often liked the sound midway between the bridge and soundhole, at 2 ft or closer in a small room, farther back in a good sounding large room.

For me, mic's in small rooms easily give nylon string gtrs a hard, plastic-y zing to the pluck of the string, emphasized more than what's really there live.

If you're getting that and nothin seems to eliminate it, and you can't move to a larger room or put up Aurlalex foam treatment, you can compensate somewhat with sneaky EQ and reverb use on the recorded file. (Personally, I don't like to EQ while tracking.)

To reduce the hard edged zing I've sometimes used a 3 to 5 dB cut at 3 kHz with a Q of 2 or 3, maybe adding a 2 dB cut also at 6 kHz to reinforce it. That leaves much of the high end still there but reduces a problem area that I've heard with many nylon string guitars in small rooms. A freeware EQ that I've found useful is the Paris EQ.

Then when adding reverb I'll use approx a 1.5 second decay and 20 milisecond pre-delay with a rich sounding verb like SIR, rolling off the high end (starting at around 2 kHz) of the reverb itself. Adds a little sweetness without sounding fake and echo-y, and further masks the hard edged zing.

Really good guitars, fingers, mics and room can make all this unnecessary, but these have been good tools for me when needed.

Just my 2c,
Tim

 

[Rokket]

IME Nylon string gtr is tough to record in a small room, especially if the room's getting a lot of high frequency reflections.

For positioning a single mic, I've often liked the sound midway between the bridge and soundhole, at 2 ft or closer in a small room, farther back in a good sounding large room.

For me, mic's in small rooms easily give nylon string gtrs a hard, plastic-y zing to the pluck of the string, emphasized more than what's really there live.

If you're getting that and nothin seems to eliminate it, and you can't move to a larger room or put up Aurlalex foam treatment, you can compensate somewhat with sneaky EQ and reverb use on the recorded file. (Personally, I don't like to EQ while tracking.)

To reduce the hard edged zing I've sometimes used a 3 to 5 dB cut at 3 kHz with a Q of 2 or 3, maybe adding a 2 dB cut also at 6 kHz to reinforce it. That leaves much of the high end still there but reduces a problem area that I've heard with many nylon string guitars in small rooms. A freeware EQ that I've found useful is the Paris EQ.

Then when adding reverb I'll use approx a 1.5 second decay and 20 milisecond pre-delay with a rich sounding verb like SIR, rolling off the high end (starting at around 2 kHz) of the reverb itself. Adds a little sweetness without sounding fake and echo-y, and further masks the hard edged zing.

Really good guitars, fingers, mics and room can make all this unnecessary, but these have been good tools for me when needed.

Just my 2c,
Tim

That's very sound advice. A friend of mine bought a cheap soundhole pickup and tried it on his classical. Uggh... It sounded like an electric with plastic strings on it. No amount of eq could fix it. He managed to book some time at a studio that was running a DAW through a digital board, and they made it sound like the guitar cost thousands of dollars.

 

[TexasMusicForge]

I get a very nice cheapo nylon sound using a Studio Projects B1 (these mics rock, BTW) set back about two feet from the neck joint of the guitar to capture room sound and an SM57 set about 10 inches back from my picking hand to capture the attack of plucking the note. I get a very punchy and slightly compressed sound from the 57 and a lot of the top end "air" from using the B1 ambient mic. A touch of the Waves compressor and a little judicious reverb and roll off the EQ @ 100Hz and bump it up around 3 kHz and you've got a warm, airy and fat-sounding guitar.

Tio Ed
Just another guitarist in Austin