How much does an AD/DA converter make if I have these gears?

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mofat

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Shure KSM44-->Universal Audio LA-610-->Allen and Heath ZED10FX (for outboard reverbs)-->M-Audio Profire 2626-->i7-3770K with 16GB RAM

I use my bedroom for recording and so far I have only made 4 acoustic panels that are 2'x4'. I'm not sure if it makes any difference. I know you'll say it's best to spend money on treating the room than to spend on the converter but I'm not sure there's much else to do to the room...it's a bedroom. I only record vocals.
I was planning to buy the Apogee Rosetta 200 or the RME ADA-2...probably 2nd hand like almost all my gears.
What do you guys think?
 
4 acoustic panels that are 2'x4'
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Make 8 more and you'll wonder why you ever thought it didn't make a difference -- assuming you're mixing in there also... And assuming you're talking about 4" thick 703 or Roxul-based traps...

A better converter *might* make enough difference that you'll have a much better idea of how much more broadband trapping you need. But you can almost never go wrong with more broadband trapping...
 
I doubt you will hear much difference between the Apogee or the RME compared to what you have now.
 
"I use my bedroom for recording and so far I have only made 4 acoustic panels that are 2'x4'".


You really believe your bedroom is a recording studio?:guitar:
 
I looked into making this move myself in a similar situation. It will make such a small difference you probably wont be able to tell. RME and Apogee are excellent and they will give you more solid performance (if you need it) But sound wise I highly doubt it. If you have the itch to buy gear, why not add another nice mic? or two?
 
What do you all think a decent mic is? I thought this Shure KSM44 was a favorite for vocalist. I have some other mics too. But this KSM44 is my most recent acquisition. I went out and bought some mover's blankets...I plan on sandwiching some Roxul between the blankets and sew it up. Then perhaps I will hang it up like a curtain cuz these blankets are only $8 for a sheet of 72"x80". Still cheaper than buying fabrics and wood...I don't know.
 
I'd use the stuff you've got, and make a few more broadband absorbers and bass traps, before putting any more money into gear. With the stuff you've got you should be able to make some respectable recordings.

I'd run the KSM 44 > LA 610 > M-A 2626 > DAW, and route the line-outs off the M-A to the Zed for reverb in post. Plug your headphones into the ZED if you need the reverb while tracking. If you set your latency buffers properly you should be able to have reverb while tracking without pops or dropouts while recording.
 
Slowrider said:
"I use my bedroom for recording and so far I have only made 4 acoustic panels that are 2'x4'".


You really believe your bedroom is a recording studio?:guitar:
Click to expand...

The OP never said he did. In any case such a comment is unfriendly and out of order in a HOME recording forum especially the NOOB section.

Re the actual question about high end converters? Properly done A/B reviews of such are very rare but when done the differences are usually found to be minute and to a large extent differences in the reviewers taste. Then, said reviewers have access to drool inducing monitors, properly treated control rooms and, above all, very high grade source material.

If I had the money I would go RME because everything I have ever read about their kit shows it to be very solid and their driver are beyond reproach. Like a combat pistol I would not give up an ounce reliability for a pound of accuracy!

Dave.
 
c7sus said:
I'd run the KSM 44 > LA 610 > M-A 2626 > DAW, and route the line-outs off the M-A to the Zed for reverb in post. Plug your headphones into the ZED if you need the reverb while tracking. If you set your latency buffers properly you should be able to have reverb while tracking without pops or dropouts while recording.
Click to expand...

What an excellent idea! I was getting pops and I couldn't understand why. Why is that btw?
I think I'm gonna do what you said for the dry track...but still leave the way it is for the wet track so I'd have both. Just gonna split the OUT on the back of the LA610 (one to the mixer & one to the M-A).
What do you think of that idea?
 
mofat said:
What an excellent idea! I was getting pops and I couldn't understand why. Why is that btw?
I think I'm gonna do what you said for the dry track...but still leave the way it is for the wet track so I'd have both. Just gonna split the OUT on the back of the LA610 (one to the mixer & one to the M-A).
What do you think of that idea?
Click to expand...

Increase your buffers in the ASIO panel.

Turn off programs on your computer that you aren't using while tracking. Turn off antivirus software. Turn off screensaver too.

I personally wouldn't split the output off the LA-610. I would go direct to the M-A and monitor off the headphone output of the M-A and not use reverb. If you have to have reverb, I would patch the output of the M-A through the ZED and monitor off the ZED. There's gonna be a little bit of latency but there shouldn't be so much that it throws off your timing once you get used to it.
 
c7sus said:
I personally wouldn't split the output off the LA-610. I would go direct to the M-A and monitor off the headphone output of the M-A and not use reverb. If you have to have reverb, I would patch the output of the M-A through the ZED and monitor off the ZED. There's gonna be a little bit of latency but there shouldn't be so much that it throws off your timing once you get used to it.
Click to expand...
DO you think splitting the output of my preamp will cause problems? What do you think the problem will be?
 
From what I understand about audio the shortest most direct path is usually the best. YMMV.

No, it shouldn't cause problems. The biggest problem might be a ground loop.

You may have to make your own cable to work with the LA-610 and the M-A and ZED.

Or use a patchbay.
 
MM is right, and I speak from experience--I started with 4 traps (2' X 4') in a relatively small room (about 15 x 13', windows on side and back walls), and went on to add 8 in that room, for a total of twelve, and the difference was very noticeable, both for tracking and mixing. I now have a bigger room (about 16' x 22') with 13 on and around the walls, with 6 bigger ones that stand in various parts of the room, joined in pairs, on feet, so I can move them around for various recording situations. And yes, I'm making more to treat the corners and just to have them handy, for other rooms, etc.
So, keep making the traps. If you're handy enough, make them and then sell them to friends. Make dozens of them, just keep going! The sound of the room is the most important thing here.
At our practice space (about 12' x12' --really small!), before the traps, we had terrible problems with feedback, and bad sound in general. (I had some old army blankets on some of the paneled walls, but that didn't do much.) I finally added 6 traps one night, and the drummer, who was absent that night (as usual), returned the following week and was "amazed" at how good the room suddenly sounded, especially his drums. There simply is no more feedback, and the sound of the room is tight. we can turn up the monitors without howl-around, and that weird ringing that occurs on the threshold of feed back is no more. Good times.
 
I was once fitting out a room some 30' by 20' and it had been plasterboarded, walls and ceiling. The fourth wall was mostly window and a door, hard floor. Needless to say it was pretty lively! Using tools in there was quite annoying but rolling out just ONE length, 10' by 24" of the absorbent that went under the plasterboard transformed the acoustic quite amazingly. I can easily see that a couple more such lengths, placed in frames will be even better.

Get some in!

Dave.
 
I'll make more traps when I get some time and the weather warms up. I was able to get the Presonus Studio One 2.6 Professional online for $180. This is my first DAW purchase and I have to say it is an awesome deal for all you get! I've just been dicking around with hardware cuz I thought it was more "bang for the buck" but boy have I been WRONG. I was able to record 2 independent tracks (wet & dry) without any problems. There was a slight delay (like you guys said) when monitoring with effects on the Zed. But nothing that I couldn't live with. Thanks u guys!
 
This question has two parts, so I will stick with the first part. That is the room treatment. It is true that four 2' x 4' panels is not enough but I feel maybe money might be an issue. I'll give you a suggestion. The corners of the room need treatment and that can be very simple. In one case I used long, tall panels of sound stop (or plywood or even drywall) wrapped in canvas drop cloth. I used excess cloth, bunched it up and stapled it to one side all bunched up and irregular. Then I leaned the panels into the corner with the bottom about a foot to 18" out from the corner. Sound headed for the corners were absorbed and what went around the edges were trapped in the bunched up cloth. Then I took some drop cloths and stapled it to the drywall ceiling letting it droop in waves. That means stapling one end to one edge of the ceiling, then letting it droop down about a foot and stapling it in a roll parallel to the ceiling's starting edge, I did that four times and finished it out with another drop cloth until the ceiling was covered with the drooping waves of cloth. At the mixing desk I placed panels of absorbing sound foam behind the desk and out to either side about three feet. That way there were no reflections coming back to me from the speakers. This was all done for under $100 dollars using things I found at Goodwill and Salvation Army. Most of it was left-over scrap. Scrounge if money is a problem. Good luck,
Rod Norman

mofat said:
Shure KSM44-->Universal Audio LA-610-->Allen and Heath ZED10FX (for outboard reverbs)-->M-Audio Profire 2626-->i7-3770K with 16GB RAM

I use my bedroom for recording and so far I have only made 4 acoustic panels that are 2'x4'. I'm not sure if it makes any difference. I know you'll say it's best to spend money on treating the room than to spend on the converter but I'm not sure there's much else to do to the room...it's a bedroom. I only record vocals.
I was planning to buy the Apogee Rosetta 200 or the RME ADA-2...probably 2nd hand like almost all my gears.
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
 
Umm,

are you trying to make a mixing booth or an isolation booth? Maybe you are trying to make both.

Treating an entire room is only really necessary if you are
a) recording live instruments and do not like the sound of the room or
b) mixing music and you want to get accurate mixes

- if you are just trying to get a clean vocal recording then you just need to isolate reflections (reverberations) hitting the mic.
And that is much easier.

Good vocal recordings just need a good signal chain:

1) source (room + voice)
2) mic
3) pre-amp
4) interface (converter)
5) DAW

Any step in the chain can cause problems. But isolating step 1 can easily be done with a few panels.
 
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