Good pres and outboard with a 246

[drewblue]

I just bought a new house so I'm moving quite a bit of my gear pro tools rig etc. (getting sick of all the upgrades b.s. Etc) not going to be recording quite as seriously. I bought a old 246 in good shape picked up a new pinch roller idler tires and belts.

so I'm gonna run through it. I have some good mics and pres and I'm thinking about keeping my vintech 473. I'm recording acoustic music,Bluegrass/blues etc. And a buddies lo-fi dub projects that we have a bit of fun with a couple times a year. It has eqs and I could do some mixing through it.

When I had my last portastudio I couldn't afford good pres so does this make that big of a difference being cassette and all. I'm sure it does some but enough to warrant a $2k plus unit. Thanks to all.

 

[Peck]

i would just try it out and see if you can tell a difference.

i liked the sound of the 246 when i owned one (bought it bc of this message board). i still listen to some recordings i made on it, and the bass guitar sounded really good just straight into the 246.

the songs have a nice pleasant sound to them - smooth - not harsh. not sure why... ??? but just try it both ways w preamp and w/out and see if you can hear a difference that is worthwhile

the reason i sold my 246 is because the 1/4" inputs kind of drove me crazy just sticking into the front of the machine. i prefer xlr inputs... just a personal thing perhaps.

i preferred using the 424mkii in the end bc of that.

good luck,

 

[Beck]

Sure, why not? But LOL you’ll definitely be the only one on your block with a 473/Cassette portastudio combo. If you were asking about buying a high dollar pre for a porta I would say… umm… no! But since you already own one it can’t hurt to try.

You’ll get the best results if you connect the line outs of the 473 to the “Line B” inputs of channels 5 & 6 of the 246. Only those two channels have these inputs on the back of the unit. That way you bypass the pres of the 246. Alternately you can use the return point of the channel inserts if you don’t need the inserts for other processors.

Both the Line B inputs and the Return points enter the signal path at the same point, right before the EQ section. So you’ll still have the 246 EQ in the mix, which is not necessarily a bad thing. When combined with the “Essential EQ” on the 473 you’ll have better sound shaping capabilities. Although I still say the Tascam 246 was the best 4-track Portstudio ever made I always felt the EQ was lacking in not having 10k shelving in addition to the two semi-parametrics. With the 12k shelving on the 473 you’ve got that problem licked. And you got the 60Hz shelving on the 473 as well so you can use the two EQs on the 246 as low-mid and high-mid paras.

If you patch the 473 or any other pre into the front Mic/Line inputs of the 246 you’re basically defeating the purpose of using an external pre because you’re sending the pre through the onboard pre of the 246.

So I would test your setup using the Line B inputs on Channels 5 & 6 and go from there. Have fun!

 

[famous beagle]

If you patch the 473 or any other pre into the front Mic/Line inputs of the 246 you’re basically defeating the purpose of using an external pre because you’re sending the pre through the onboard pre of the 246.

So I would test your setup using the Line B inputs on Channels 5 & 6 and go from there. Have fun!

Is this really true? I was kind of wondering the same thing.

If you come out of an external pre into the channel inputs of the 246, you'd be coming in at line level, so you wouldn't be really using the input as a preamp, would you? In other words, you wouldn't need it to boost the signal at all, I imagine, because you'd have all the level you needed from the external pre.

What's different about the signal chain going through the inserts (or the 5 and 6 B inputs)? Aren't those line level too?

I'm not saying you're wrong at all. I'm just trying to understand.

Do you personally have any experience A/B'ing an external pre > channel input vs. using the channel input alone? I don't, and I'm really curious.

Thanks!

 

[Beck]

Is this really true? I was kind of wondering the same thing.

If you come out of an external pre into the channel inputs of the 246, you'd be coming in at line level, so you wouldn't be really using the input as a preamp, would you? In other words, you wouldn't need it to boost the signal at all, I imagine, because you'd have all the level you needed from the external pre.

What's different about the signal chain going through the inserts (or the 5 and 6 B inputs)? Aren't those line level too?

I'm not saying you're wrong at all. I'm just trying to understand.

Do you personally have any experience A/B'ing an external pre > channel input vs. using the channel input alone? I don't, and I'm really curious.

Thanks!

Yes sir... I've owned the 246 since it was brand new still in stores. But with any tape deck, Ideally a pre should bypass as many stages as possible, and often the most ideal would be directly into the line inputs of the tape deck itself. Since the portstudio is a mixer/tape deck combo you can't do it that directly, but you can get closer if you bypass the onboard pres.

If you have an external pre, the onboard pres are an unnecessary stage consisting of an op-amp, resistors and capacitors that do nothing for you but add noise and coloration. On the 246 both the line-B inputs and insert returns bypass this unnecessary circuitry. Noise and distortion figures will always be worse when you stack pres. This is also why mixing consoles are designed with tape returns that bypass the mic/instrument pre. Hope that helps.

 

[famous beagle]

Yes sir... I've owned the 246 since it was brand new still in stores. But with any tape deck, Ideally a pre should bypass as many stages as possible, and often the most ideal would be directly into the line inputs of the tape deck itself. Since the portstudio is a mixer/tape deck combo you can't do it that directly, but you can get closer if you bypass the onboard pres.

If you have an external pre, the onboard pres are an unnecessary stage consisting of an op-amp, resistors and capacitors that do nothing for you but add noise and coloration. On the 246 both the line-B inputs and insert returns bypass this unnecessary circuitry. Noise and distortion figures will always be worse when you stack pres. This is also why mixing consoles are designed with tape returns that bypass the mic/instrument pre. Hope that helps.

Ok great, thanks for the info. It's easy enough to use one of the inserts as an input, so I'll try that. I always wondered why it wasn't more common to use good external pres with a 4-track. I mean ... why not use the best pres you have?

 

[Beck]

Ok great, thanks for the info. It's easy enough to use one of the inserts as an input, so I'll try that. I always wondered why it wasn't more common to use good external pres with a 4-track. I mean ... why not use the best pres you have?

Yep, and some portable cassette studios don't have a way to bypass the onboard mic pre. By the time someone can afford "Good" external pres they probably aren't using a 4-track cassette machine.