firewire, analogue or usb desk

[roryo]

hey there newbie here want to know would i be better with a firewire, analogue or usb mixing desk. i was thinking of either mackie or yamagha for firewire.and dont know for the other 2

 

[therage!]

What's your budget?

 

[roryo]

around £700-£800, im wanting to use it with protools on a mac in time to come. i just have sonar on windows atr the moment

 

[dgatwood]

If you really need a mixer, I'd go analog. Get a decent standalone FireWire interface for capturing the sound.

The FireWire interfaces built into mixers are generally subpar, and USB gear pretty universally sucks (and most USB mixers only do two actual input channels off the output of the mixer, which makes them really limited).

That said, if you want the feel of a mixer and aren't planning to do live sound reinforcement with it, I'd probably lean towards a good FireWire interface and a USB-based control surface for controlling the software mixer in your DAW software.

Oh, and my strong advice is when you move to the Mac, don't bother with Pro Tools. IMNSHO, the best DAWs on the Mac are Logic and Digital Performer... by far. Pick either of those and you'll be a lot happier. They're more robust, don't require you to lag behind the current OS version by weeks or months while Digi updates their skanky custom drivers (Pro Tools doesn't even run on 10.5 yet, so any new macs sold since last October won't run it at all), and neither of them locks you into a particular audio interface vendor like Pro Tools does. IMHO, the Digi hardware (Pro Tools) is overpriced and underperforming, while the M-Audio gear (Pro Tools M-Powered) is cheap and underperforming....

Just don't waste your time with it. If you were setting up a pro studio and you had clients saying that they'll only work with a Pro Tools studio, then yeah, but otherwise, it's a lame dog of an app and you're far better off putting it to sleep.

 

[roryo]

thanks very much for the advice dgatwood it has relly helped i am new to the relm of recording and software. i thought i knew something but not as thouragh as yourself. i really apreciate you answering my thread.

any good models or makes i should look for and steer away from?

Plus i wanted to know does a firewire interface act like a midi by sending signals to the computer software to adjust levels or values here and there?

 

[dgatwood]

thanks very much for the advice dgatwood it has relly helped i am new to the relm of recording and software. i thought i knew something but not as thouragh as yourself. i really apreciate you answering my thread.

any good models or makes i should look for and steer away from?

I'm a big fan of MOTU's interfaces. I've heard lots of good things about RME and a couple of others whose names I don't recall....

I've had trouble with Presonus gear, as have a bunch of other folks. If you buy a FIREPOD, never upgrade the firmware. If you buy any of the other models... well, just don't. Maybe the new Inspire is okay, not sure. The FireBox has problems with drawing too much inrush current and thus won't work correctly without an external power supply on any Macs built after about 2006....

M-Audio... well, it is inexpensive, but my M-Audio gear has had a lot of driver issues. YMMV. It also has weird FireWire implementation bugs... like the S/PDIF port not working unless it is the first physical device on the bus. Don't even think about putting it behind a hub. I don't know of any valid reason for this behavior, and it doesn't appear to be power-related as far as I can tell, so I can only assume it is a bug in their chipset or their drivers. Dunno. *sigh*

Plus i wanted to know does a firewire interface act like a midi by sending signals to the computer software to adjust levels or values here and there?

An interface, generally speaking, takes audio and converts it into data in the computer (and vice-versa), period. An external device that adjusts levels within the computer (e.g. channel volume, panning, etc.) would be a control surface.

 

[roryo]

again thanx for replying.

this is probably a stupid question but with a firewire desk, i dont need a processing unit?

and what would be a good processing unit for an analogue mixer

 

[gcapel]

One vote hear for the RME stuff. I done extensive searches. I looked at motu, but read about some problems. Not to say they don't make a good unit sonically. I ended up with the RME multiface II pci bundle. It has been rock solid.

I would as well stay clear for the all in one type products. For the main reason of upgrades. You can't just upgrade the converter section of your all in one piece.

The only all in one unit I ever thought of owning is the AKAI DPS24 MKII.
I read about some really good stuff on this piece. I'm so cubase oriented that don't want to use anything else.

I would just do tons of reading before you make a purchase. Know your limitations within each peice. Look at at expansion capabilities as well as sound characteristics.

 

[roryo]

thanx guys fro the help

I was checking out the RME AEB 8/0. but i am yet to find an analogue mixing desk that has around 10 xlr channels to suit my needs. i seen a few but they where noted as live mixers so i dident look at them much longer. what i did find was the soundcraft MFX12 but i dont know anything about sound craft...

any one got a nice solid manufacture or madel that would suit my needs

 

[gcapel]

I've heard a lot a good stuff on the new toft consoles for analog summing.
I'm sure the mic pre's are ok.

I remember having good results with the mackie vlz series as a summing buss.
The mic pres for the front end were nothing to talk about though.

I "mix in the box" as of now. Trying to buy a house. The recording ventures are secondary for a while.

 

[roryo]

thats really help full but i dont think i could afford a toft console, even though they look amazing and just what i would want.

i have came across the MACKIE CFX20 MkII MIXER how would you rate them?

also i notce the rem multiface II bundle is a good price but what exacly doe's it do ( i said i was a noob) is it only there to convert the signals from the mixer to a digital format for the computer.also how do i conect my mixer to it?????????????

 

[dgatwood]

One vote hear for the RME stuff. I done extensive searches. I looked at motu, but read about some problems.

You'll find people posting about problems no matter what hardware vendor you search for. The only reason most people post are because they are having problems....

Comparing the build quality of MOTU to the other companies I've dealt with, they're really solid, IMHO. They also use less CPU power than anybody else's interfaces that I've tried. That matters a lot to me.

Of course, if you're in a position to afford RME or Apogee, those might well be better built. I've never dealt with their gear. Bear in mind, however, that you're also looking at spending two or three times as much money to get equivalent functionality. IMHO, MOTU provides a good balance between respectable build quality and price, while RME and Apogee are the best pick if you want the absolute best and cost is no object.

P.S. Buy TI-based or Lucent-based cards, period (and many people would recommend only TI). Anything else, and you're going to have lots of problems no matter whose interface you buy.

 

[roryo]

great i was just about to ask about the MOTU 828MK2 interface.. so with this i also need a pcb card for the process to be complete dont i? + which card works best for you and your MOTU set up?

 

[gcapel]

thats really help full but i dont think i could afford a toft console, even though they look amazing and just what i would want.

i have came across the MACKIE CFX20 MkII MIXER how would you rate them?

also i notce the rem multiface II bundle is a good price but what exacly doe's it do ( i said i was a noob) is it only there to convert the signals from the mixer to a digital format for the computer.also how do i conect my mixer to it?????????????

The multiface is a A/D (analog to digital) and D/A (digital to analog) converter. It has 8 channels of I/O on board. It can be expanded to 16 I/O with the lightpipe connection. You would need to buy another piece of gear to get the 8 extra channels. This unit operates at line levels, so you will need pre amps to get your microphone levels up in order to feed this box with audio.

To you use it with an analog mixer: In your recording software you have to direct each software channel to a physical analog out which then would feed you analog mixer. This setup allows you to use plugins, automation, as well as outboard effects and analoag summing.

Or you could just mix in the software or "mix in the box" which doesn't require a analog mixing console.

P.S. I know nothing of this MACKIE CFX20 MkII MIXER. It doesn't ring a bell. I've owen an Allen and Heath mix wizard. It was a terrible summing mixer for recording. Though it had very useable mic pre's. I've also owned a vlz 14 somthing another. It was the exact opposite.

 

[roryo]

hey thats sweet advice.i see the MOTU 8PRE has 8 input XLR channels. i would be talking 10-12 chanels needed.. do i buy 2 to make 16 and not use the extra 6-4?

control surfaces?? i would need a control with 16 level controllers but i can only afford units with 8.. do i also buy 2???

would you use xlr connections or 1/4" jacks (unbalenced or balenced)

 

[MOFO Pro]

control surfaces?? i would need a control with 16 level controllers but i can only afford units with 8.. do i also buy 2??

Most control surfaces will let you control multiple ranges of DAW channel strips... you can toggle through Chs 1-8, Chs 9-16, Chs 17-24, etc...

 

[roryo]

thanks man

so that means i only need one control surface,, but i would need 2 motu 8 pre's?

 

[MOFO Pro]

so that means i only need one control surface,, but i would need 2 motu 8 pre's?

Maybe...

the 8pre also features two banks of ADAT optical ports, which gives you an additional eight channels at up to 96kHz. ... Two FireWire ports allow for daisy chaining

It will take an additional 8 channels of ADAT... you can pick just about anythng that provides an adat output for the additional channels that you need... doesn't have to be the eight pre, but the eight pre will daisy chain nicely.

Do you really need those additional channels badly enough to double up on your input interface, can't you submix or group before going into the box... not saying it's ideal... but it could give you more options on other equipment

 

[roryo]

well i think i may be able to double up..its more for drum kit micking..
2 overhead condensers
1 snare
1 hi hat
1 high tom
1 mid tom
1 low tom
2 symbols
1 kick

i would say i could double the over heads and the symbols thus leaving me with 8 so yea i would say i could get away with that.

could i double up through my patch bay or is there a better more simpler way?

 

[roryo]

so just to recap you think i should get the 8 pre with a control surface,, im thinking about the euphonix mc mix controller ,,, would this be a good controller?

also my patch bay can double up mics cant it?